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	<title>Sri V.  N. Gopala Desikan &#187; jivatma</title>
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	<description>Books / Articles written by Sri V.  N. Gopala Desikan</description>
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		<title>A Dialog on Hinduism &#8211; The Departure of the Soul &#8211; Chapter 10</title>
		<link>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-the-departure-of-the-soul/</link>
		<comments>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-the-departure-of-the-soul/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 18:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ramasamy Ramanuja Dasan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Dialog On Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[death]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jivatma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mind]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[paramatma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[soul]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[swarga]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vaikunta]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/?p=122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan

At the time of death, how does the Jivatma depart from this body?
This is well explained in the Upanishads. At the time of death, the Jivatma leaves the body. When the Jivatma leaves the body, the following also leave:-
1) The five senses of knowledge; (Jnana Indriyas)
2) The five senses of action; [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="author">By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan</div>
<ol class="faq">
<li>At the time of death, how does the Jivatma depart from this body?</li>
<p>This is well explained in the Upanishads. At the time of death, the Jivatma leaves the body. When the Jivatma leaves the body, the following also leave:-</p>
<p>1) The five senses of knowledge; (Jnana Indriyas)</p>
<p>2) The five senses of action; (Karma Indriyas)</p>
<p>3) Manas or mind;</p>
<p>4) Prana or principal vital air;</p>
<p>5) The five elements viz., ether, air, fire, water and earth, in subtle form.</p>
<li>What exactly happens at the time of death?</li>
<p>First, the speech rests in mind.</p>
<li>What do you mean by this?.</li>
<p>As you know, the mind thinks first and then the person speaks. So, at the time of death, it is the reverse. The power of speech stops first. He is unable to speak. He is able to think, but not able to speak. This is the first stage in the process of death.</p>
<li>What happens next?.</li>
<p>Similarly, the five senses of knowledge and the five senses of action rest in the mind.</p>
<p>Then the mind rests in the vital air or prana. This means that his thinking function also stops. Then, the people say that he has become unconscious. He does not know what is happening around. But, life is still there. So, we say that the mind rests in prana.</p>
<li>What happens next?.</li>
<p>Next, the prana reaches the soul or Jivatma. After this, the soul joins with the five gross elements (panchabhuta), of ether, air, fire, water and earth, in a subtle form.</p>
<p>Then, they all depart from the body. The Upanishad figuratively states that the prana then rests in the fire, in the body. In other words, after the prana departs, there is still warmth in the body.</p>
<p>That is why for some time after death, the body is still warm. When the fire also departs, then the body becomes cold.</p>
<li>What is the further process of the soul leaving the body, at the time of death?</li>
<p>I have explained earlier how</p>
<p>1)the five senses of knowledge</p>
<p>2)five senses of action, combined with</p>
<p>3) mind (manas),</p>
<p>4) prana (vital air)</p>
<p>5)the soul and</p>
<p>6) the five gross elements in subtle form, proceed out of the body.</p>
<p>Now, there are innumerable veins (nadis) in the body. Out of these, there are 101 veins, which go upwards. Out of these 101 veins, going upwards, there is one special vein, called Brahma nadi.</p>
<p>1) The Jivatma, who is to attain moksha, passes through this special Brahma nadi.</p>
<p>2) The Jivatma, who passes through the other 100 veins, going upwards, reaches svarga; and enjoys pleasures, in the company of devas.</p>
<p>3) The Jivatma,who passes through one of the veins,going downwards,is born in samsara in this world.</p>
<li>What happens to the senses (Indriyas)?</li>
<p>When a person dies, the soul leaves the body; and depending upon the karma,, the soul i) goes to svarga or ii) takes on some other body or hi goes to Paramapada. ~When the soul goes to svarga or to some other body, all the ten senses also follow the soul.</p>
<p>But when the soul goes to Paramapada, the senses are left behind. In any case the senses are not destroyed.</p>
<li>Please explain the method of departure of the Jivatma,followed by these elements,from the body.</li>
<p>Suppose the individual soul or Jivatma performs good and meritorious acts. So, for the good and pious acts done in this world, they have to enjoy the fruits. So, to enjoy these fruits in the other world, the Jivatma, accompanied by senses and elements, as mentioned above, reaches the heaven or svarga.</p>
<p>There he takes a body, to enjoy the fruits of his good acts. In the company of the devas, he enjoys the fruits of his action. When his good karmas or the good acts get almost exhausted, he is born again in this world, along with the balance of karma.</p>
<li>So, how does he get into this world again?</li>
<p>i) After enjoying the fruits of his good action, in the heaven, as described above,</p>
<p>ii) TheJivatma enters the clouds. Then, along with the rain from the clouds, he again enters this world.</p>
<p>iii) So as the rain water falls on the earth, he also falls on the earth. There, he then becomes united with the paddy, etc, which is grown in the earth.</p>
<p>iv) The paddy, is made into food, and is eaten by man. So, he also enters the man. v) Then, from the man,, he (along with the creative fluid of the man), enters the womb of a woman; when the man and woman unite. He is subsequently born from the womb of the woman.</p>
<p>The above is described in detail in the Vedas and is called as the vidya of five fires (panchagni vidya).</p>
<p>The five fires are: 1) svarga or heaven, 2) The rain cloud, 3) earth, 4) man and 5) woman &#8211; as explained above;</p>
<li>Please explain the types of persons who reach svarga.</li>
<p>Some people do good and meritorious works, like performing the yaga, or digging ponds, for the good of the people. Such persons go through the path of smoke, night, krishnapaksha, dakshinayana, the world of manes (pitrus) etc. and &#8211; reach the Moon god.</p>
<p>Such people, who have done good work and reach the moon, through the path of smoke, enjoy the fruits of their action in svarga. Then they come back into this world, as described above.</p>
<li>Explain the types of persons, who reach Paramapada, i.e., attain moksha, and their passage.</li>
<p>Those who perform bhakti yoga or adopt the path of prapatti, also reach the moon, but by a different route, the route of the devas. They go through the path of light, suklapaksha, uttarayana, air, sun and moon. People, who after the bhakti yoga or prapatti reach the moon this way, go further beyond to reach Paramapada.</p>
<p>There is a big tank called Irammadiyam. Then the sacred river Viraja is there. On the banks of the river Viraja, the Jivatma casts off his subtle body, consisting of the senses and elements in the subtle form, along with the principal vital air. Then he enters the Paramapada.</p>
<li>What happens in Paramapada?</li>
<p>He is welcomed there by others. He sees the Lord,with Mahalakshmi, reclining on Adisesha. He announces himself to the Lord and is received by Him. After that, it is eternal bliss for him.</p>
<li>Where is this described?</li>
<p>This is described in detail, in Kaushitaki Upanishad and also in Sri Vaikunta Gadya of Ramanuja.</p>
<li>What happens to those, who have done only bad things, who have never done any good things in their life?</li>
<p>Those, who have done only bad things; and who have not done any good things in their life; do not go either by the path of smoke or by the path of light, to the moon. There is no question of the five fires for them, i.e., coming through the rains, down to the earth.</p>
<p>They are repeatedly re-born in this world, as trees, animals, birds, and so on.</p>
<li>So, how do you categorise the departure of beings, after death?</li>
<p>There are three ways of passage for the beings, after death, as follows:</p>
<p>1) Those, who have done bhakti or prapatti, go by the path of Light to the Moon and then on, they attain moksha or Paramapada. There is no return for them, from the Paramapada.</p>
<p>2) Those, who have done good things, like digging ponds for the benefit of the people, performing yagas or giving gifts to the deserving, go through the path of smoke and reach the moon. Thereafter, they enjoy the fruits of their good deeds in svarga. Afterwards, they come down to this world, through the five fires, with a balance of their karmas. Depending upon the balance of the karmas, they are born in this world, as human beings, animals or birds.</p>
<p>3) Those, who have done only bad things and have not done any good things, are repeatedly born and re-borm in this world itself, as trees, animals and birds.</p>
<li>A person has done prapatti and he is assured of moksha. At the time of death, what happens to the good karma, (punya) that he has earned so far; and similarly, to any bad karmas which also he earned so far?</li>
<p>Now he leaves off both the results of the good karmas and bad karmas. The Upanishads say that, at the time of death, his good karma is distributed to his relatives and friends. The sins or bad karmas are distributed to persons who hated him.</p>
<li>Do you mean to say that, for a person who has done Prapatti, even his good karmas are of no use?</li>
<p>You are right. When a person, who has done prapatti, attains moksha after death, his good karmas are also of no use to him.</p>
<p>The good karmas of a person are useful to him, only when he attains svarga and not moksha.</p>
<li>Then, why should a man, who has done prapatti, do anything good in this world, since they are of no use to him?</li>
<p>So long as a person, who has done prapatti, is alive in this world, he has also to obey the sastras. He has to do good things voluntarily, for the pleasure of the Lord. That is why, whatever good things we do, we do for the pleasure of the Lord. We call this Sattvika tyaga.</p>
<li>So, for a person who has done prapatti, both good karmas and bad karmas, are of no use, at the time of death.</li>
<p>You are right. That is why,for a person who has done prapatti,the good karmas are called golden chain or shackle; and,the bad karmas are called iron chain.So the chain,whether golden or iron, is discarded,at the time of death.</p>
<li>Why should the Lord wait till death, for distributing the person&#8217;s punya and papa, to his friends and enemies? Why not earlier?</li>
<p>There are two reasons for this:</p>
<p>1) Even a person, who has done prapatti, continues to do good things and also bad things (intentionally or unintentionally) till death. So the Lord waits till a man&#8217;s death, for the final distribution of the results of his karmas, to his friends and enemies.</p>
<p>2) A person, who was earlier a friend, might later become an enemy. Similarly, a person who was an enemy, might later become a friend. So the Lord waits till a person&#8217;s death, for distribution of his karmas, to his friends and enemies.</p>
<li>You say that, for a person, who has done prapatti, at the time of his death, his papa and punya, (his sins and good deeds) are distributed to his enemies and friends or relatives. But sastras say that a man, who has done good or bad, has to reap the benefit. Is this not conflicting with what you have stated?</li>
<p>It is not the exact sins and good deeds of the person. who has done prapatti, that go to his enemies and friends. An equivalent value is distributed to the enemies and friends.</p>
<p>The person, who has done prapatti, has friends or relatives, who do good to this person. So, in return. they get the effects of good deeds of the person. who has done prapatti. Similarly, his enemies do bad things to him (who has done prapatti). So, they get the equivalent effect of sins of the person. who has done prapatti. Further, in any case, for every general rule, there is always an exception. Even if the above interpretation is not accepted/you can take this, as an exception to the general rule, in the case 01 a prapanna (who has done prapatti).</p>
<li>Now a man does good things or bad things. Consequently, he gets pleasure or pain. Do these results as pleasures or pains come from his earlier action, by themselves; or are these given by Brahman?</li>
<p>The results of actions, whether good or bad, are bestowed by the Lord only. It is only the Lord, who gives pleasures or good results for good things done. Similarly, it is only the Lord, who gives punishment, for all bad actions of the Jivatma.</p>
<li>Do we accept the concept of salvation in this world itself?</li>
<p>No. This is the concept of advaitins. They call it as jivan mukti; and say that a person can attain salvation here itself. For us, the salvation is attaining moksha or Paramapada, where we enjoy and serve Lord Narayana.</p>
<li>I have heard that death at night or in krishna-paksha or in dakshinayana, is not good. Is that so?</li>
<p>For people who have done Prapatti and who are to attain moksha, it is immaterial, when the life departs from the body. Saying that it is not good to die, during night or krishnapaksha or dakshina-yana is only for others, who have not done prapatti.</p>
<li>What is the meaning of Conductor (ativahika)?</li>
<p>The presiding deities of light, year, moon, wind, sun, etc. are directed by Brahman, to receive and conduct those, who are to attain moksha. So, they are called conductors.</p>
<li>What happens to the soul, after attaining moksha?</li>
<p>His essential qualities of intelligence, happiness, etc. shine in their normal splendour. The soul (Jivatma) becomes free from all sins, free from sorrow, etc; having the highest degree of intelligence and happiness.</p>
<li>Were these qualities with the soul even in this world?</li>
<p>These qualities rightly belong to the soul, even in this world. But, as I mentioned earlier, they are hidden, because of the impurities and defects, due to his association with the body. So when he leaves the body and leaves this world and attains moksha; his essential in-born qualities shine in their normal splendour.</p>
<p>I also gave you the example of a gem covered by dirt.In this world, the soul is like a gem, covered with dirt. When he attains moksha, the dirt is cleaned; the soul becomes like a clear gem having its fullest brilliance.</p>
<li>What are his powers, after attaining moksha?</li>
<p>His powers become unlimited. He can get whatever he wants. He can do whatever he wants. He can take any body, if he likes. He can move without a body also.</p>
<p>In short, whatever he desires, he can do. He enjoys things. He serves Lord Narayana, either with body or without body.</p>
<li>After attaining liberation, in the Paramapada, does the Jivatma become one with Paramatma?</li>
<p>No, the Jivatma does not become one with Brahman. But he acquires all the auspicious and divine qualities of Brahman.</p>
<li>What do the Vedas say in this regard?</li>
<p>The Vedas say that in the Paramapada, the Jivatma attains the highest degree of equality with Brahman. He is permanently free from the bondage of births and deaths. He enjoys the Lord, in the company of others.</p>
<li>Are there any limitations or restrictions to this freedom of the soul, when he reaches Paramapada? Can he do anything he pleases?</li>
<p>Yes, his powers are unlimited, except with regard to one matter. That is, except regarding creation, support and destruction of the world. The powers to create, support and destroy the world, are entirely that of Brahman. So in these matters alone, the released soul does not have the powers.</p>
<li>Does this limitation not restrict or curtail the happiness of the released soul?</li>
<p>No, it does not. Because, the released soul attains the same pleasure and happiness as that of Brahman, who creates, supports, and destroys the world.</p>
<p>He attains the highest degree of equality with Brahman. This can be explained with an example.</p>
<li>Can you clarify this further?.</li>
<p>Let me give you an example:</p>
<p>There are a father and his son. The father cultivates the land. He harvests the grains and he cooks. The meal is shared, both by the father and the son. So, the son does not till or plough the land. The father is tilling the land and is harvesting the proceeds.</p>
<p>Still, the son has the pleasure of eating the produce, just like his father. So, the pleasure remains the same, both for the father and the son. In the same way, although the released soul does not create the world, he gets the same pleasure as the Brahman in this regard.</p>
<li>You said that even in Paramapada, Jivatma does not have powers to create, support or destroy the world. Are there any other powers or qualities, peculiar to the Lord?</li>
<p>The following qualities are special to the Lord:</p>
<p>1. Being the cause of the world.</p>
<p>2. Giving of moksha to Jivatma.</p>
<p>3. Being the support and controller of the world and for whom all things and beings exist.</p>
<p>4. Having everything as His body.</p>
<li>After attaining Brahman in the Paramapada, when does the released soul return to the world?.</li>
<p>After attaining moksha, the released soul does not return to the world, because he has no karmas left. All his karmas have been destroyed; and he continues in eternity, enjoying the Brahman.</p>
<li>Can the released soul then never return to the world?</li>
<p>What I mentioned is that the released soul does not have any karma left. So, he is not re-born in this world. But if, out of his own free will, he wants to visit this world, he does so. As already mentioned, he can do anything he likes, anything he pleases.</p>
<li>Can the Lord, because of His independence, send back the released soul into this world?</li>
<p>There is no possibility of this; because, after getting rid of all karmas, the Jivatma has attained moksha. So, there is no reason or cause for the Lord to send him back into this world.</p>
<li>Again,you say that he can do anything he likes.But,there are specific duties assigned to some of the Nityasuris, like Garuda and Adisesha. Garuda is the vehicle of the Lord. Adisesha is the couch (bed) for the Lord. So, can the released soul do these duties also?</li>
<p>As I said earlier, all these have to be interpreted, without conflicting with other matters. The released soul does not desire to do things, which are already being done by some others, like Garuda and Adisesha. Further, the pleasure that results from doing any of these things, is the same, i.e. whichever service the released soul does to the Lord, he gets the same pleasure.</p>
</ol>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>A Dialog on Hinduism &#8211; Jivatma and Paramatma &#8211; Chapter 9</title>
		<link>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-jivatma-and-paramatma/</link>
		<comments>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-jivatma-and-paramatma/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ramasamy Ramanuja Dasan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Dialog On Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jivatma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[paramatma]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/?p=111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan

You said that like Brahman, the Jivatma and matter are also eternal. Is there only one Jivatma or there are several of them?
Jivatmas are infinite in number. The fact that they are countless, has been made clear in the Vedas,as Well as in the Bhagavad Gita.
Then, is there any difference between [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="author">By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan</div>
<ol class="faq">
<li>You said that like Brahman, the Jivatma and matter are also eternal. Is there only one Jivatma or there are several of them?</li>
<p>Jivatmas are infinite in number. The fact that they are countless, has been made clear in the Vedas,as Well as in the Bhagavad Gita.</p>
<li>Then, is there any difference between one Jivatma and another, and if so, what is the difference?</li>
<p>There is absolutely no difference between one Jivatma and another. The difference that we see is only in the bodies, like that of a man, a woman or animal, or bird. Thus the souls or Jivatmas are all identical in nature, and they are atomic in size.</p>
<li>Does that mean that Jivatmas and matter are not created by Brahman?</li>
<p>Jivatmas and Matter are not created by Brahman. They are self-existent. They are eternal. What iscreated is the world. From Matter, Brahman creates the subtle elements, the gross elements and then the world</p>
<li>I have heard that Brahman exists in three forms. What are they?</li>
<p>1) Brahman exists as the soul of the Jivatma Of soul (Chetana).</p>
<p>2) Brahman exists as the soul of non-sentient beings, i.e., achetana.</p>
<p>3) Brahman exists also in His essential nature, as the abode of all auspicious qualities and free from all evil. He has a beautiful form, with four hands, sankha, chakra, and so on.</p>
<p>These are three forms of Brahman. These are useful for meditation.</p>
<li>How do you say that the Lord is infinitely merciful, when human beings undergo so much suffering, in this world?</li>
<p>He is loving; thousand times more loving than the mother.</p>
<p>The Lord gives Jivatma, the power of intelligence, and the capacity to take action. The Lord has also taught the Vedas to Brahma and through him, to others. Apart from the Vedas, we have smritis, puranas, Itihasas, and agamas.</p>
<p>All these prescribe the code of conduct; how we should perform rituals; what we should do in day- to-day life, and so on. Only out of mercy of the Lord these benefits have been conferred on us. The Jivatma must pursue them.</p>
<li>Does the soul have power to act and How?</li>
<p>Yes, the soul (Jivatma) is also the doer of actions.</p>
<li>How do you say this?.</li>
<p>The Vedas give instructions to do good things like yagas; not to do anything wrong, i.e., not to tell lies and so on. So, since these Vedic instructions have to be followed, the soul has to be the doer of things. He is to be capable of performing a yaga, of performing good acts, as enjoined in the Vedas. So, the soul is also the doer of actions.</p>
<p>Also,ias you know, f a person does something, he also enjoys the fruit of his action. Hence, this is another reason to show that the soul is capable of action. He is the performer.</p>
<li>Does this mean that the soul has full powers to do what he wants? Is he completely independent of Brahman?</li>
<p>No. Although the soul is the doer, his action is dependent on Brahman.</p>
<li>This is not clear to me.</li>
<p>Brahman only gives the soul, the power of doership. The Vedas state clearly that the Brahman controls the soul; and guided by the Brahman, the soul does actions. So, although the soul has the power to act, it is controlled by Brahman.</p>
<li>You say that the Jivatma&#8217;s action is controlled by Brahman. If that is so, how can the Jivatma perform activities as stated in the Vedas? How can he do yagas and other such acts if his action is controlled by Brahman?</li>
<p>Here one has to understand carefully, What is meant is this. The Brahman or the Lord is the common cause of all actions. The souls or the Jivatmas are particular causes for the action.</p>
<p>For example, for the plant to grow, we require the land, water and the seed of the particular plant. Now, the land and water are common for all types of plants. Only the seed has to be the particular seed of the particular plant.</p>
<p>So, just like the land and water, which are common for all plants, the Lord is common for all actions of the souls or the Jivatmas. The Jivatma himself is the particular cause for the action, like the particular seed for the plant.</p>
<p>So, the soul has also got the independence to take a particular course of action. Hence, although the Jivatma&#8217;s action is controlled by Brahman, he has also got the independence to do a particular course of action.</p>
<li>Can this be explained with an analogy?</li>
<p>You&#8217;re right. We have got safe deposit lockers in Banks. A particular locker is owned by a customer. He cannot open the locker by himself, with his own key. As you are aware, each locker has got two keys. One key is kept by the bank and the other key by the customer. So, only when both the keys are operated, the locker can be opened. But still, the one who has hired the locker, is the owner of the contents of the locker.</p>
<p>In the same way, all actions of the Jivatmas are controlled by Brahman, just like the Master key for all lockers is kept by the Bank. The particular Jivatma has also got the independence to do a particular course of action. This is like the customer having his key for operating the locker.</p>
<p>The example is like this:</p>
<p>1. Brahman &#8211; Master key, kept by Bank, for opening lockers.</p>
<p>2. Jivatma &#8211; Individual key of locker, kept by customer.</p>
<p>3. Doership of action &#8211; Opening the locker, with both keys.</p>
<p>To sum up again, the Lord or Brahman is the common cause for all actions. The individual soul or Jivatma has still got the independence or liberty to take a particular course of action.</p>
<li>How does the Jivatma perform the various types of action?</li>
<p>There are several stages in an action.</p>
<p>1) First, we have to think about doing something.</p>
<p>2) Then the mind (manas) gives command to the concerned limbs of the body, for the necessary action.</p>
<p>3) Then the action is actually done. The Jivatma is given the necessary-knowledge and it is for him to make good use of the same.</p>
<li>What is the role of the Lord in the actions of the Jivatma?</li>
<p>This is explained in two alternative ways:</p>
<p>We can say that the Lord has three distinct roles, in the actions of the Jivatma:</p>
<p>1. Be indifferent or neutral.</p>
<p>2. Permit the Jivatma to, continue to do the action.</p>
<p>3. Positively inspire the Jivatma to do extremely good or extremely bad things.</p>
<li>Please explain this further.</li>
<p>When the Jivatma performs any action, Brahman has three ways of controlling it.</p>
<p>1. The first way is to remain neutral or indifferent. God remains neutral or indifferent, for the first stage of action,undertaken by the Jivatma.</p>
<p>2. The second way is for the God to consent or assent to the course of action, undertaken by the Jivatma.</p>
<p>3. The third way is for the God to induce Jivatma in the particular course of action.</p>
<p>In regard to the initial effort of the Jivatma for an action, Brahman remains neutral or indifferent.</p>
<p>In regard to the subsequent efforts of the Jivatma, God gives his consent or assent. This consent of the Lord is both for the good action and the bad action of the Jivatma. .</p>
<li>When does the third form of inspiring the Jivatma to do a particular course of action arise?</li>
<p>This arises when the person undertakes an action, which is exceedingly good or exceedingly bad. When the person proceeds to do something, which is exceedingly good; which is exceedingly favourable, in accordance with the Vedas and Puranas; then the Lord is pleased with his act. The Lord Himself induces him further to do the exceedingly good things.</p>
<p>Similarly, when a person begins to do something exceedingly bad, which is contrary to Vedic injunctions; then the Lord gets annoyed and He induces him further to do the exceedingly bad things and thereby leading to hell.</p>
<li>What is the authority for this last type, i.e. when a person does extremely good or bad things?</li>
<p>The authority is available both in the Upanishads and in the Bhagavad Gita. In the Gita, Krishna says:</p>
<p>&#8220;To those people, who worship me with loving devotion, I give the mental power to realise me, so that they can attain me.</p>
<p>Those people, who, because of their cruel nature, show hatred towards me; I put them into repeated cycles of births and deaths and that also in wicked forms of life.&#8221;</p>
<li>What is the another interpretation of this principle?</li>
<p>The other interpretation is that the Lord is not indifferent, even in the initial stage or the first stage. In this interpretation, there are only two types of roles He plays (instead of three types of roles, mentioned earlier).</p>
<p>1) The first one is that the Lord permits or allows the Jivatma to do a course of action.</p>
<p>2) The second one is that the Lord induces or inspires further, when a person does extremely good deed or extremely bad deed.</p>
<p>In other words, in the three forms in the first interpretation mentioned earlier, the first form of indifference or being neutral is not here. In this second interpretation, only the 2nd and 3rd types are there, namely, 1) allowing the Jivatma to do a course of action and 2) inspiring him to do an extremely good or bad deed.</p>
<li>It follows that in this method of interpretation, even in the initial stage, the Lord permits the Jivatma to do a thing?</li>
<p>Yes, one can take the example of growth of a plant. Just as soil and water are common for all plants, the Lord is the common cause for all actions. This means that even from the first or initial stage, the Lord permits Jivatma to do what he wants.</p>
<p>However, there is only a very minor difference between the two interpretations. The difference is more academic in nature.</p>
<li>Why is this supreme deity called Brahman?</li>
<p>Brihat in Sanskrit means greatness. So, Brahman is one, who is great in an respects.</p>
<li>How is Brahman defined actually?</li>
<p>Brahman is defined as One from whom the creation of the world etc. takes place.</p>
<li>What is the basis for this definition?</li>
<p>The Vedas declare that from Brahman all these beings are created. Because of Brahman, all the beings, which are created, exist in the world. The beings are also destroyed by Brahman.</p>
<p>On the basis of this Vedic text in Taittiriya Upanishad, the above definition of Brahman is given in the Brahma Sutra.</p>
<li>What is the source of knowledge about Brahman?.</li>
<p>The Sastras are the only source of knowledge about Brahman.</p>
<li>I do not understand why logic should not be used to discuss about Brahman.</li>
<p>The idea is this. Logic will be useful, when we discuss about known things, so that, with authority. we can make use of our logic and argument. But logic cannot be of use, in discussing about unknown things, unseen things like Brahman. Here we have to accept the authority of the Vedas.</p>
<li>Does this mean that logic cannot be used at all for studying or understanding Brahman?</li>
<p>No, it is not that. The primary authority is the Vedas and these can be supplemented by logic, without deviating from the authority of the Vedas.</p>
<p>The main purpose or perhaps the sole purpose of the Vedas and Upanishads is to teach about Brahman. Hence, they are the only source for us to understand the Brahman.</p>
<li>Why not we say that matter itself evolves into the world?</li>
<p>Matter cannot by itself evolve into the world. Matter (achetana) is not an intelligent being.</p>
<p>We have mud. The mud, by itself, cannot evolve into a mud pot. It requires the potter to mould the mud and to make a pot, out of the mud. So, here also, the matter by itself cannot evolve into the world.</p>
<p>It requires an intelligent being to create the world from matter, and that intelligent being is Brahman.</p>
<p>There are many arguments to show that matter cannot evolve into the world,of its own accord. But what I have mentioned above is the main reason.</p>
<p>For the mud pot, we have the mud as material cause and the potter as the instrumental cause. But, for the world. God is both the material cause and the instrumental cause.</p>
<li>If matter by itself cannot evolve into the world and requires an intelligent being; can the Jivatma evolve from world, out of matter?</li>
<p>I agree that Jivatma is an intelligent being, but his powers are limited. He is imperfect and he is himself revolving in this samsara, in this world. So, obviously, he does not have the power or capacity to create the world, out of matter.</p>
<li>How many ways of meditation or worship of Brahman are there?</li>
<p>There are three kinds of meditation of Brahman:</p>
<p>1)	The first one is, worship of Brahman in His own essential nature, namely, as Himself.</p>
<p>2)	The second way is worshipping Brahman, having the Jivatmas as His body; that is, worshipping Brahman, as the soul or atma of the Jivatma.</p>
<p>3) The third way is worshipping Brahman, as having achetana as His body; i.e., worshipping Brahman, as the soul or atma of achetana.</p>
<li>How do you explain Indra, Sage Vamadeva, Prahlada and others saying that &#8220;I am the Brahman&#8221;?</li>
<p>It only means that Indra, Vamadeva or Prahlada are referring to themselves as the body of Brahman; that is, indicating the truth that Brahman is their soul. Only if we interpret this way, there will be no contradiction.</p>
<li>What is meant by the pralaya?</li>
<p>There are actually three types of pralaya:</p>
<p>1) The first one is the continuing pralaya. We have every day, people dying, trees and plants withering, the animals dying. This is alled daily pralaya or continuing pralaya.</p>
<p>2) As you know, the lifetime, the day and night, etc. of the Devas are different from that of human beings. One day for Brahma is called a Kalpa. At the end of the Kalpa, namely, at the end of the day of Brahma, we have second type of pralaya.</p>
<p>We learn from our puranas that there are evenn worlds, starting from our world here. This world of our is called 1) Bhu loka. After bhuloka, we have above us 2) Bhuvar loka, 3) Suvar loka, 4) Mahar loka, 5) Janaloka, 6) Tapaloka and finally 7) Satya loka.</p>
<p>During this second type of pralaya, the first three worlds, namely, Bhuloka, Bhuvarloka and Suvarloka, get destroyed.</p>
<p>The 4th world, which is Maharloka, is partly destroyed and partly not destroyed. The people there shift to the next higher world, which is Janoloka. The last three worlds namely, Janaloka, Tapoloka and Satyaloka are not destroyed during this pralaya.</p>
<p>During this second type of pralaya, after destroying the first three worlds mentioned above, the Lord takes the form of a young child, Balakrishna, and lies on the leaf of a peepul tree.</p>
<p>3) Next we have the third type of pralaya. This happens at the end of the life of Brahma. At that time, all beings, chetanas, achetanas, all rest in the Lord in a very subtle (sukshma) form. The Lord alone remains, with Jivatmas and matter, lying in Him, in subtle form, undifferentiated.</p>
<p>These are the three types of pralayas.</p>
<li>You said that the Brahman has matter and Jivatmas as His body and the Brahman resides in them. All the imperfections, and impurities, which are in the human beings or in this world: Will they not taint the Brahman?</li>
<p>No. Although He is in all these, these do not taint him. We have water on lotus leaf. The water is on the leaf, but still doesn&#8217;t get tainted by the impurities on the lotus leaf. Similarly, the Lord doesn&#8217;t get tainted by His association with the chetanas and achetanas.</p>
<li>I have a doubt. The Jivatma is the soul in our body. The Jivatma experiences the pains and pleasures, because it is associated with this body. In the same way, if Brahman is also associated with Jivatmas and matter as body, would not the Brahman also suffer the pains and pleasures, just as the Jivatma does?</li>
<p>No, because of the inherent difference between the Jivatma and the Paramatma. What applies to Jivatma need not necessarily apply to Brahman also.</p>
<p>In the Vedas, Brahman is described as having two characteristics. The first one is that He is free from all defects and impurities. The second characteristic is that He possesses all auspicious qualities.</p>
<p>In view of this categorical statement in the Vedas, we have to understand that Brahman does not get tainted by His association with the chetanas and achetanas.</p>
<li>You&#8217;re saying that He (the Lord) is residing within the small heart of human beings. How can the Lord, who is present everywhere,also reside within the small heart?</li>
<p>It is for the purpose of worshiping, that the Lord is identified as being within small heart. He is also big &#8211; bigger than everything else; and He is also small &#8211; smaller than everything else. That is His attribute.</p>
<li>You say that He resides within the hearts of the human beings. When we experience pain or pleasure does the Lord inside our heart also experience them?</li>
<p>No, as I have already stated, the impurities and imperfections do not taint the Lord. Similarly, He is beyond all pains and pleasures, which we experience.</p>
<li>Do the Vedas say so?</li>
<p>Yes. The Mundaka Upanishad very clearly mentions as follows:</p>
<p>&#8220;There are two birds, of beautiful feathers, residing in the same tree. The birds are friends and closely attached to each other. One bird eats the fruit of the tree. The other bird shines, without eating.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here, the tree is the body. The two birds are the Jivatma and Paramatma. The Jivatma eats the fruit of his karma. This means, the Jivatma undergoes the pains and pleasures, due to his past karma. Paramatma, although in the same body, shines without eating, i.e. He is not tainted by the pains and pleasure of the Jivatma.</p>
<p>This shows clearly that Paramatma, although residing in the body, is not tainted by impurities and past karma, of Jivatma.</p>
<p>The same passage occurs again in Svetasvatara Upanishad.</p>
<li>You mentioned that the sankhya system of philosophy was propounded by Sage Kapila. Why is this system not acceptable to Vishistadvaitins, though this has been propounded by a venerable sage, Kapila?</li>
<p>This system does not accept that the Brahman is the material cause of the world. This system stats that the elementary matter is the material cause for the world and not Brahman. I have mentioned that the Upanishads state clearly that Brahman is the material cause and also the instrumental cause. The sankya system talks against this and says that only matter is the maerial cause, out of which world evolves. So this is contrary to the teachings of Upanishads and other sages like Manu. Hence it is not acceptable to us.</p>
<p>We have timber or wood. We require a carpenter to make furniture, out of timber. We require a potter to make a pot out of mud. Similarly, we also require an intelligent being to create this world, out of matter. This is possible only by the most intelligent being the Brahman. Since this is not accepted by Sankhya, the system is faulty.</p>
<li>You said that the yoga system of philosophy has been propounded by Brahma himself. If so, why cannot this be accepted?</li>
<p>In the yoga system of philosophy, propunded by Brahma, he accepts the existance of Brahman. He also accepts that Brahman is the instumental cause. Howevere, the yoga system also stats, like the sankya system, that matter is material cause for this world; and that the world evolves out of matter. Hence this system is also not acceptable.</p>
<li>Why is Buddhism rejected by us?</li>
<p>The Buddhist philosophy says that the atom joins together and evolve into this world. In other words, the world and other materials are all caused by atoms joining together. They also say that the body and the senses are in turn produced by earth and other elements.</p>
<p>These are directly against the Upanishadic teachings that Brahman is the material cause of the world; and Brahman is also the instrumental cause. Hence we do not accept Buddhism.</p>
<p>Further, Buddhists say that everything is momentary, i.e., everything exists only for a moment and then it gets destroyed. So, this also is not acceptable.</p>
<li>I heared that there are different schools of Buddhism. What are they?</li>
<p>Yes, there are four schools of Buddhism, holding different views. The four schools of Buddhism are:</p>
<p>Vaibhashika, Sautrantika, Yogachara and Madhyamika.</p>
<p>We need not go into the different principles held by these schools, in our present elementary treatise.</p>
<li>What about Jainism?</li>
<p>We do not accept Jainism also. Jainism states that it is possible for an object, to be both existent and non-existent, at the same time. This is something contrary to fact.</p>
<p>Further, Jainism states that, for every animal or human being, the soul is of the same size as the body. If this is so, how can the soul enter into a body like that of an ant or mosquito, when earlier the soul was in an elephant? This is a major defect in Jainism.</p>
<p>If we accept that the soul is of the same size as the body, then the soul also will have to go on changing depending upon the size of the body it takes, in different births. Obviously, this is not possible, since the soul is defined in the Vedas as not subject to change&#8221;. Hence, this system is not acceptable.</p>
<li>What about the other systems of philosophy, like Vaiseshika system founded by Kanada; and Nyaya system founded by Akshapada?</li>
<p>Thse system also argue that Brahman is is not the material cause of the world.</p>
<p>So, in the same way as the argument advanced against the Sankhya system of philosophy, these systems are also not acceptable. Because they teach contrary to the Upanishads. The Upanishads declare that only Brahman is the material cause of the world.</p>
<li>What about the Pasupata religion?</li>
<p>It is also not acceptable. It states that only Lord Pasupati or Siva is the instrumental cause of the world. It does not accept Brahman as the material cause also. Since this is opposed to Vedic texts, this philosophic system is not acceptable. Further, as mentioned earlier, the Vedas declare everywhere that Narayana is the supreme Brahman, Narayana is the supreme truth, Narayana is the supreme atma (paramatma). So, the philosophy of Pasupata that Siva is the ultimate God, cannot be accepted, as this is contrary to Vedas.</p>
<li>What are Sankara&#8217;s views in this regard?</li>
<p>Sankara also, in his commentary, agrees that the system of Pasupata is not acceptable.</p>
<p>There are other reasons also, as to why this system is not acceptable. We may pass over these, being high philosophy, in thie elementary treatise.</p>
<li>You mentioned that Adi Sankara propounded the Advaita philosophy. He has mentioned about: 1) Para Brahman, which is nirguna and without form, which is real; 2) Apara Brahman, who is saguna (with auspicious qualities) and beautiful form. This is Vyavaharika.<br />
Which deity does Adi Sankara consider as Saguna Brahman?</li>
<p>There are innumerable passages in Sankara&#8217;s works, which show that he considers Narayana, as saguna Brahman. I will give you few quotations from his works:</p>
<p>(1) His commentary on Gita (10-8) &#8211; Krishna&#8217;s words &#8211; &#8220;I, Vasudeva, am Para Brahman. All the worlds come out of me. Existence, destruction, etc. of the world also evolve from me.&#8221;</p>
<p>(2) Commentary on Gita (9-22) &#8211; &#8220;Those who worship the supreme deity, Narayana, are the people, who know the truth&#8221;.</p>
<p>(3) Commentary on Gita (7-23) &#8211; &#8220;The Lord expresses pity that although the efforts are the same, people do not worship Narayana for eternal results (but worship other deities). This is very regrettable.&#8221;</p>
<p>(4) Commentary on Brahma Sutra (2-2-42) &#8211; &#8220;What is mentioned here, that Narayana is the Paramatma and that He is the soul of all, is accepted.&#8221;</p>
<p>(5) Introduction to commentary on Gita: &#8220;Bhagavan Narayana created this world, and for its sustenance, created Marichi, etc. The supreme deity, Narayana or Vishnu, took Avatara as Krishna.&#8221;</p>
<p>(6) Commentary on Gita (9-11) Krishna&#8217;s words: &#8220;Fools disregard me&#8230;.without understanding that I am the Supreme Brahman, Paramatma.&#8221; (In this sloka, the word &#8220;Maheswara&#8221; occurs. Sankara has interpreted the word &#8220;Maheswara&#8221; as Narayana).</p>
<p>(7) Commentary on Gita (4-6) &#8211; Krishna&#8217;s words: &#8220;I am not born, because of karma. I am the Lord of all beings &#8211; capable of governing all beings, from Brahma to a blade of grass&#8221;.</p>
<p>(8) Commentary on Gita (9-22) &#8211; Krishna&#8217;s words: &#8220;Those persons, who understand that I, Narayana, am the supreme deity and I am their soul, worship Me.&#8221;</p>
<p>(9) Commentary on Gita (7-15) &#8211; Krishna&#8217;s words: &#8220;Fools do not take refuge in Me, although I am the supreme deity, Narayana.&#8221;</p>
<p>(10) Commentary on Gita (9-25) &#8211; Krishna^ words: &#8220;Those who worship Me, the Vaishnavas, attain me.&#8221;</p>
<p>(11) Commentary on Gita (7-7) &#8211; Krishna&#8217;s words: &#8220;There is no other cause, other than Myself, the supreme Lord, Parameswara.&#8221;</p>
<p>(12) Commentary on Gita (10-2) &#8211; Krishna^s words: &#8220;I am the source of all the devas and the great rishis&#8221;,</p>
<p>(13) Commentary on Brihadaranyaka Upanishad &#8211; (3-7-3) &#8220;Iswara, who is Narayana, is the Atma of you, myself and all beings.&#8221; Here the Upanishad has not mentioned the name, Narayana. But Sankara specifically clarifies that Iswara, who is the soul of all beings, is Narayana only and not any other deity.</p>
<p>(14) Chandogya Upanishad: &#8220;Brahman alone was existent. Then, Indra, Varuna, etc., were created&#8221;. Here, Sankara&#8217;s commentary: Rudra, the Lord of Pasus, i.e., Pasupati (was also created).</p>
<p>(15) Commentary on Gita (6-47) &#8211; Krishna&#8217;s words: &#8220;one who worships Me is more steadfast than those who worship Siva, etc.&#8221;</p>
<p>(16) Commentary on Gita (8-16) &#8211; Krishna&#8217;s words: &#8220;All the worlds, including that of Brahma, are perishable. So, only those people, who attain me, get salvation and are not born again.&#8221;</p>
<p>(17) Mundaka Upanishad (2-4): Upanishad says &#8220;Brahman is the inner soul of all beings&#8221; . Sankara&#8217;s commentary onn this: The Deva, Vishnu is the first to have a body. He has all the three worlds as His body. He is the inner soul of all beings</p>
<p>18) Commentary on Mandukya Upanishad &#8211; first karika &#8221; Iswara whose name is Narayana&#8221;</p>
<p>19) Commentary on Gita (3-30) &#8211; Krishnas words &#8221; I am the supreme Iswara. I know everything and all things . I, vasudeva, am the atma of all.</p>
<p>20) Commentary on Gita(13-18) &#8211; Krishna&#8217;s words:&#8221;I Vasudeva,am the supreme Iswara,I know all things.I am the supreme teacher.&#8221;</p>
<p>21) Commentary on Gita(11-43) &#8211; Arjunas words to Krishna &#8221; There is nobody equal to you. There cannot be even two Iswaras. So, there is no question of many Iswaras. There is nobody equal to you. So how can there be anybody, who is greater than you? &#8221;</p>
<p>22)Commentary on Gita(17-7) &#8221; Nobody else is seen (other than Krishna), who is fit to be worshipped&#8221;.</p>
<p>23) Commentary onGita(13-10): &#8220;there is nobody else,who is greater than Vasudeva.So,He is the only refuge.So ,devotion is only to Him and not to anybody else&#8221;.</p>
<p>24) Commentary on Katopanishad (3-9) : &#8221; Paramapada is the exalted place of Brahman, Paramatma whose name is Vasudeva&#8221;</p>
<p>25) Commentary on Vishnusahasranama &#8211; meaning of Kesava. Here Sankara refers to Siva&#8217;s words in Harivamsa; &#8221; Brahma is named as Ka and I am Isa. Both of us were born from your limbs and so you are named Kesava&#8221;. This shows that Rudra was born from the limbs of Narayana.</p>
<p>26) Commentary on Vishnusahasranama &#8211; meaning of Arka: &#8221; one who is fit to be worshipped, starting from Brahma and by all&#8221;.</p>
<p>27) Commentary on Vishnusahasranama &#8211; meaning of word &#8220;Amitasana&#8221; . At the time of destruction, Narayana eats the whole world&#8221;. So this includes all the deities and devas.</p>
<p>28) Desika wrote as follows in his Commentary: &#8221; Tatparya Chandrika&#8221; on Ramanuja&#8217;s commentary on Gita:-</p>
<p>&#8221; It has been accepted as follows: &#8221; I do not know any tattva greater than Krishna&#8221;.</p>
<p>29) Madhusudana Sarasvati,who has written commentary on Sankara&#8217;s commentary on Gita,states as follows:</p>
<p>&#8220;I do not know any  tattva greater than Krishna&#8221;.</p>
<p>30) Narayana Bhattar , who has written the famous &#8220;Narayaneeyam&#8221; on Guruvayurappan, has written as follows :</p>
<p>&#8221;  Adi Sankara worships you (Krishna) only. He is impartial. Hence , he has written commentary on Vishnusahasranama. He was only worshipping you (Krishna) and attained Salvation&#8221;.</p>
<li>What about the Panharatra system, which mentions about worshipping?. Are these Agamas authoritative?</li>
<p>Yes, this system has also been discussed in the Brahma Sutra. Pancharatra Agamas are accepted as authorities.</p>
<li>What is the objection of others, to accepting the Pancharatra system?</li>
<p>In the Pancharatra Agamas, it is stated that from Vasudeva is bom the jiva, by name Sankarshana.From Sankarshana, Pradyumna, the manas or mind is produced.</p>
<p>Others object that this is contrary to Vedic teachings, that the Jivatma or the soul is eternal and has no birth. It is argued by them that, since Pancharatra Agamas state that the jiva. Sankarshana. is born from Vasudeva, this system is not authoritative.</p>
<li>What is our (Vishistadvaitin) reply to this argument?</li>
<p>Our reply is this. The Pancharathra system does not really say that the Jivatma or soul is born from Vasudeva.This refers actually to the four vyuhas, of Lord Narayana.</p>
<p>We have already discussed about the Vyuha forms of the Lord. From Vasudeva comes Sankarshana. Sankarshana is the Lord of the Jivatma. So, what is mentioned is, that Sankarshana, who lords over the Jivatma, arises out of Vasudeva. So, this does not really state that the Jivatma is born. Hence the argument of the opponent is not correct.</p>
<li>Still, this is not quite clear.</li>
<p>From Vyuha Vasudeva, Vyuha Sankarshana arises. Sankarshana is the Lord of jivatmas. So, it is figuratively stated that the jiva, Sankarshana,is born from Vasudeva. This has to be understood as a figurative statement.</p>
<p>Just as the individual soul or the Jivatma is presided over by Sankarshana, the manas or mind is presided over by Pradyumna. This is what is stated in the Pancharatra Agamas and this is how it has to be properly interpreted.</p>
<p>Further in many places in the Pancharatra Agamas, it is clearly stated that the Jivatma is eternal, that he is not created. Hence it is clear that the Pancharatra Agamas are acceptable as authority.</p>
<li>You were saying that Brahman is the material cause of the world. In other words. Brahman evolves into the world. But Brahman has all the auspicious qualities and has no impurities. If He evolves into this world, how can the world consist of all impurities, defects and imperfections?<br />
When the pot is made of the mud, the pot has got the same qualities as that of the mud. Similarly, the world also should have the same good qualities as that of Brahman, if the world comes out of Brahman.</li>
<p>The logic here is not correct. Actually, at the time of the final deluge (pralaya), all the Jivatmas and matter merge m Brahman, in a very subtle (sukshma) state. So, Brahman, at the time of the final deluge, has everything as His body, in a very subtle state.</p>
<p>After the deluge, these Jivatmas and matter, which merged in Brahman in a subtle state, come out in their normal (sthula) state. Then the process of creation starts. I have explained already n great detail, the process of creation. So, in view of this, the comparison of the mud and mud pot with the world and the Lord is not correct. This can be explained with a relevant example.</p>
<p>The Jivatma is in the body. The Jivatma does not undergo any change. But still, the body undergoes changes. The body is first that of a child, then becomes that of a young man, and then an old man.</p>
<p>Similarly, Brahman has all auspicious qualities and does-not undergo any change. But still, the world. His body, undergoes changes; consists of impurities and defects..</p>
<li>I think this example is not quite correct.Brahman evolves into the world;but similarly,the Jivatma does not evolve into his body.</li>
<p>You are right. The example given is limited in character.However,the Vedas clearly mention this point and so, we accept it as the truth.</p>
<li>What is the purpose behind the creation of this world, by Brahman?</li>
<p>The Brahman is full in all respects and there is nothing to be achieved by Him. So, the creation, sustenance and destruction of the world, etc., are only mere sport for Brahman.</p>
<p>In this world also, the king, who has the entire kingdom under his control, plays with balls, just as a form of sport. In the same way, the creation of the world and destruction of the world, are also only-forms of sport to Brahman. &#8221;</p>
<li>Why should He create this world, full of misery and inequalities? Is this not a cruel sport?</li>
<p>No. He cannot be called merciless or partial; because, creation of this world is also dependent on the karmas of the individual souls. In fact, Brahman is only the general cause for this world. The karmas of the souls are particular cause for their coming into this world.</p>
<p>I will remind you of the growth of a plant. For a plant to come up, we require both water and seed of the particular plant. Water is general and is common to all plants. But, for a particular plant to come up, we require the particular seed of the plant. Similarly, just like water is the general cause for the growth of the plant. Brahman is the general cause for creation. Just as the particular seed is required for the growth of a particular plant, the individual karma of the soul is the particular cause, for the soul coming into this samsara.</p>
<p>So, although creation, etc., of the world is sport to the Lord, He cannot be called merciless or partial.</p>
<p>Because, a person&#8217;s enjoying happiness or pain in this world, is dependent on his past karma. So. the past karmas of the person are the special or particular cause for his pain or pleasure in this world.</p>
<li>How does the Lord help the Jivatmas to do good things and avoid evil?</li>
<p>The Lord loves the Jivatma thousand times more than a mother. He has revealed the Vedas and propounded the sastras. These clearly teach us what to do and what not to do.</p>
<p>He has given us knowledge, to know what is good and what is bad. He also remains neutral; or permits us to do, in the first stage of our action (refer earlier). So, it is for us, to make use of all the knowledge given to us.</p>
<li>But, before creation, i.e., after the deluge, there was no karma and there was no soul. Is it not?</li>
<p>You&#8217;re not correct. The soul or Jivatma is eternal. It has no beginning. Similarly, his karma is also eternal. It has no beginning.</p>
<li>Then, what do you mean by creation of the world?</li>
<p>At the time of deluge, the souls and matter &#8211; all merge in a very subtle (sukshma) form in Brahman. They are indistinguishable. They are not distinct from one another.</p>
<p>So, after the deluge, Brahman separates them and makes them attain their usual (sthula) form. Then He gives them names and forms. So, what is meant by creation, is actually the manifestation of these chetanas and matter in their normal form; as against the subtle form in which they merged in the Lord. So, the souls are all eternal, they have no beginning and, therefore, their karmas are also eternal. The karmas also have no beginning.</p>
<li>If the soul-(Jivatma).ls atomic in size, how can the soul-experience the pains and pleasures all over the body? If the soul is atomic, how can it realise the pain in any part of the body, say, in the leg or hand?</li>
<p>This is indeed possible. Which can be explained with a simple example.</p>
<p>We apply sandal paste on our chest or hands. But the smell and pleasing sensation extend to the entire body. Similarly, the soul, although atomic in size experiences the pain and pleasure all over the body.</p>
<p>The Jivatma resides in the heart of a person. So, from there, he experiences pain and pleasure, all over the body.</p>
<p>A gem or a diamond is kept at a particular place, but because of its light, the surrounding space is brightened up. Again, the sun&#8217;s rays travel far and wide, and light up the whole world.</p>
<p>Similarly, the soul is in the heart but it experiences the pain and pleasure all over the body. This is possible, because the soul also possesses knowledge: and by this knowledge, it experiences the pain or pleasure all over the body..</p>
<li>If the soul (Jivatma) possesses knowledge, then what happens to this knowledge, when a person is in deep sleep?</li>
<p>In deep sleep also, the knowledge is in the person, but it does not show itself.</p>
<li>You mentioned that all the chetanas and achetanas constitute the body of Brahman. So does this mean that the chetana or the Jivatma is a part of Brahman?</li>
<p>Yes, naturally. Since the Jivatma constitutes the body of Brahman, he is a pan of Brahman. This has been clearly stated in the Vedas and also in the Smritis.</p>
<li>How do you say that the individual soul is a part of the Brahman?</li>
<p>There is light coming out from fire, or sun. The light which comes out from a shining fire or from the sun is also a part of the shining fire or the sun, as the case may be, Similarly, the Jivatma is a part of the Brahman.</p>
<li>So, how do you explain the relationship between the Jivatma and Paramatma?</li>
<p>As explained earlier, the Jivatma is the body of Paramatma: Paramatma is the soul of the Jivatma.The relationship between the Jivatma and Paramatma is similar to the relationship between the light and the source of light, namely, fire or sun. In one way, the light is a part of the fire or sun. But again the fight is distinct and different from the fire or sun. In other words, they are the same and yet they are different.</p>
<p>That is the same way between the Jivatma and Paramatma; one constitutes the body of the other and still by the same reasoning, they are different.</ol>
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		<title>A Dialog on Hinduism &#8211; Karma, Jnana, Bhakti Yogas &#8211; Chapter 8</title>
		<link>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-karma-jnana-bhakti-yogas/</link>
		<comments>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-karma-jnana-bhakti-yogas/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ramasamy Ramanuja Dasan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Dialog On Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bhakthi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bhakthi-yoga]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jivatma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jnana-yoga]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[karma-yoga]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prapatti]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[yoga]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/?p=106</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan

What are the types of activities of the Jivatma, in this world?
The activities pursued by Jivatma are of three kinds: 1) Nitya 2) Naimittika 3) Kamya
1) Nitya: That which has to be done, without fail, regularly, like Sandhyavandana. By not doing these, one incurs sins.
2) Naimittika: Those, which have to be [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="author">By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan</div>
<ol class="faq">
<li>What are the types of activities of the Jivatma, in this world?</li>
<p>The activities pursued by Jivatma are of three kinds: 1) Nitya 2) Naimittika 3) Kamya</p>
<p>1) Nitya: That which has to be done, without fail, regularly, like Sandhyavandana. By not doing these, one incurs sins.</p>
<p>2) Naimittika: Those, which have to be done on particular occasions, like Tarpana during eclipses.</p>
<p>3) Kamya: Those, which are done if a person wants to achieve specific desires, like wealth, pleasure. These are not compulsory. By not doing these, no sin attaches. These can also be done, purely for the pleasure of the Lord, without desiring for fruits.</p>
<li>Is there any other division of the human activities?</li>
<p>There is another division of these activities.</p>
<p>1) Some activities have to be compulsorily performed. By performing these, you do not get any benefit or punya; but, by not doing these, you in- cur sin or papa. For example, Sandhyavandana and Tarpana (by those who are required to perform) have to be necessarily done. By doing these, you do not get any punya; but, by not doing these, you incur sin. These are called Ajna Kainkarya.</p>
<p>2) The second type of activities are those, which are desirable. By doing these, you get punya. But by not doing these, you do not incur sin or papa.</p>
<p>For example, going to the temple, weaving garland for adorning the Lord, cleaning the temple premises &#8211; such acts are desirable and they result in punya. But by not doing these, you do not incur papa. These are called Anujna Kainkarya.</p>
<li>What is the principle behind these activities?</li>
<p>Whatever activities you pursue you must carry them out as a service to the Lord, and for the pleasure of the Lord. You should not pursue any activity solely for your personal benefit. But it should be done only to please the Lord.</p>
<li>What is the meaning of Karma yoga as expounded in the Gita?</li>
<p>One should perform the normal duties laid down like Sandhyavandana and others according to his position and status in life.</p>
<p>He has also to do the duties, which have to be compulsorily performed on certain occasions,like Tarpana during eclipse.</p>
<p>He may also do the desirable works,like going to the temples, worshipping the Lord, preparation of flower garlands to the Lord.</p>
<p>He should do all these, without any desire for the fruits. He should also have the basic knowledge in regard to the real nature of the Jivatma and Paramatma.Then he can take up, in addition to all these, any particular duty or karma; and concentrate on its performance for the rest of his life.</p>
<p>In other words, the person does all the duties expected of him, as laid down in the sastras. Then he takes up a particular item of work and continues to perform the same, as much as possible, according to his capacity.</p>
<li>What are the different types of work, that are laid down?</li>
<p>1) The first is worshipping the Lord with tulasi and flowers. So, here, in addition to his normal duties, the person goes on worshipping the Lord.</p>
<p>2) The second type is doing yagna, as laid down in the Vedas.</p>
<p>3) The third type is to control one&#8217;s senses.</p>
<p>As mentioned earlier, we have five senses of knowledge and five senses of action. The person has to control his senses. In other words, the senses should function and perform only those duties that are permitted by the sastras.</p>
<p>The eye should see only the Lord, in the temples, and only good people. The eye should not see anything bad.</p>
<p>The ear should hear the Vedas and other good things. The ear should not hear anything bad. Likewise with the other senses. So, the person controls all these senses by not doing anything bad.</p>
<p>4) The next type of activity is giving gifts to deserving people. The person should earn money by rightful means. The money or things in kind, which he earns by rightful means, should be given as gift to deserving people.</p>
<p>5) The next type of activity is called Tapas, i.e., by fasting repeatedly, as laid down in the sastras.</p>
<p>6) Another type of activity is bathing in holy waters like Ganga and Kaveri.</p>
<p>7) Another type of activity is repeatedly reciting the Vedas; also, discussing and understanding the sacred meaning of the Vedas.</p>
<p>8) Lastly, the Gita mentions doing pranayama also as a sacred work under karma Yoga.</p>
<p>All these people also do their daily rituals, as prescribed in the Vedas. Then, after doing Aradhana to the Lord, they take food.</p>
<li>Abstaining (not doing) some of the things, which have been prescribed in the Sastras, can we take up a particular activity and do it?</li>
<p>No. As I mentioned earlier, there are certain activities or rituals, which have to be necessarily performed. (Ajna Kainkarya). If these are not performed, you incur papa (sin).</p>
<p>In fact, the Daksha smriti says that a person, who does not do sandhyavandana regularly, is always unclean. He is unfit to do any work or activity.</p>
<p>So what are prescribed as compulsory, by the sastras, have necessarily to be done. Then a person can take up some activity in particular, as mentioned earlier and do it regularly. This is the essence of Karma Yoga.</p>
<p>But, no activity, which has been stipulated as compulsory by the sastras, should be omitted.</p>
<li>How does one do these activities?</li>
<p>While doing all these activities, you must be clear that you are not doing the activities; but the Lord only does these activities through you. Further, these are done for the pleasure of the Lord only.</p>
<li>What is Jnana Yoga?</li>
<p>Jnana yoga means, realising the soul as different from the body; that Jivatma and Matter are the body of Brahman, who is their inner soul. Then he has to constantly meditate on his atma, as the body of Brahman.</p>
<p>Here also. the prescribed activities, as laid down in the sastras, must continue to be performed.</p>
<li>How do you define Bhakti Yoga?</li>
<p>This should not be understood in the ordinary sense of the term as devotion. The term bhakti has a special significance in this context.</p>
<p>In the Upanishads, there are several methods described, for attaining Brahman, i.e., salvation. These are called vidyas. There are 32 such vidyas, described in the Upanishads. Each vidya explains one method of doing bhakti.</p>
<p>So, performance of any of these vidyas is called bhakti.</p>
<li>Can you name some of the more prominent or important vidyas?</li>
<p>We have Sad Vidya, Dahara Vidya, Madhu Vidya, Bhuma Vidya, Panchagni Vidya, Sandilya Vidya, Purusha Vidya, Prana Vidya, Vaisvanara Vidya, Prajapati Vidya, Purushatma Vidya, Balaki Vidya, Maitreyi Vidya, Paryanka Vidya and others.</p>
<li>What is the significance of these different kinds of vidyas?</li>
<p>In each Vidya, Brahman is meditated in a different way. Some of this characteristics or qualities of Brahman are highlighted and worshipped in each Vidya. Brahman is conceived in one way, in one vidya,and in another way, with some other qualities, in another vidya, and so on. Like the proverb &#8220;All ways lead to Rome&#8221;, here also, these are only different ways of meditating on Brahman.The objective of all these vidyas is to attain Brahman i.e., salvation.</p>
<li>As there are different ways of meditating in these vidyas, will the result also be different?</li>
<p>No, the goal is the Paramapada, where the Jivatma enjoys Brahman. The Upanishads clearly declare that there is no difference at all, in the fruit or in the goal.</p>
<li>So, how long are these vidyas to be practised?</li>
<p>There is no specific duration or period, during which these vidyas have to be practised. Each person can choose a particular vidya and go on practising it. The Bhakti Yoga is completed in one birth or it may not be over in one birth. The Bhakti, in the form of vidya, may have to be continued in two or three or several births.</p>
<li>Do people practise these vidyas in the present day?.</li>
<p>It is extremely doubtful whether anyone practises these vidya today.</p>
<li>So, what is the essence of Bhakti Yoga?</li>
<p>Bhakti Yoga means, we have to constantly .meditate on Brahman and His qualities, according to any one of those 32 vidyas, prescribed in the Upanishads.</p>
<p>While performing Bhakti Yoga, we have also to perform the rites and duties prescribed in the sastras, such as sandhyavandana,tarpana and other things.</p>
<p>Bhakti Yoga is constant meditation, out of tremendous love for the Lord; knowing fully, all His auspicious qualities; and also knowing that He is the inner soul of all chetana and achetana.</p>
<li>Does this mean that there may be delay in attaining moksha, if we adopt Bhakti Yoga?</li>
<p>You are right.There is a chance of delay in the attainment of moksha, by adopting Bhakti Yoga. Salvation may be at the end of this life, or it may require several births. So, normally, in the present days, Bhakti Yoga is not practised.</p>
<li>What are the conditions for taking up Bhakti Yoga?</li>
<p>There are conditions or restrictions or 7 types. These are:-</p>
<p>1.Body purity has to be maintained, by avoiding impure and unclean food.</p>
<p>2.We have to be free from desires. We should not, desire any material things, like wealth and pleasures. Of course, if God gives, we aeeept them, as His gift.</p>
<p>3.Frequent meditation of the Lord, in the form you cherish.</p>
<p>4.Performing the rites and duties, as prescribed in the sastras.</p>
<p>5.Kindness and compassion towards all beings; not injuring any human being or animal, even by thoughts or words (apart from deeds).</p>
<p>6. To be in a cheerful and calm state of mind.</p>
<p>7. To be free from pride or egoism (ahankara)</p>
<li>Are there different stages in this bhakti?</li>
<p>Yes, there are three stages of step by step development or intensity of bhakti. In the ascending order of intensity of bhakti, these are:-</p>
<p>1) Para bhakti</p>
<p>2) Para jnana</p>
<p>3) Parama bhakti.</p>
<li>The ultimate aim of the Jivatma is to attain salvation or moksha.?.Now, what are the means for achieving this goal?</li>
<p>The means are two.</p>
<p>1) Bhakti</p>
<p>2) Prapatti</p>
<li>If only bhakti and prapatti are the two means of attaining salvation. Then what about Karma Yoga, and Jnana yoga?</li>
<p>Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga only lead to bhakti. So they cannot directly lead to salvation. The appropriate performance of karma, and having proper knowledge or jnana lead a person to bhakti. Then by practising Bhakti Yoga, the man attains salvation</p>
<li>Then, what is the relationship between Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga?</li>
<p>Karma Yoga, when properly done, can lead to Jnana Yoga: and then, to Bhakti Yoga. Or Karma Yoga can also directly lead to Bhakti Yoga.</p>
<p>Similarly, Jnana Yoga leads to Bhakti Yoga. So Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga, only lead to Bhakti Yoga.</p>
<p>Therefore, Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga, by themselves are not means for attaining salvation, Only bhakti and prapatti are the means of attaining salvation. This can be explained , by a chart.</p>
<p>1) Karma yoga -&gt; Jnana Yoga &#8211;&gt; Bhakti Yoga or Karma Yoga &#8211;&gt; Bhakti Yoga</p>
<p>                                           (Or)</p>
<p>						     Karma Yoga&#8211;&gt; Bhakti Yoga</p>
<p>2) Jnana Yoga -&gt; Bhakti Yoga</p>
<li>There are three types of people who worship only Lord Narayana. Who are they?</li>
<p>1) People, who pray to Narayana, for the good things in this life and also for moksha are called Ekantins. They do not worship any other deity.</p>
<p>2) The second type of people are those, who pray to Narayana.not for any good things in this life: but pray to Him, only for moksha and nothing else. They are called Paramaikantins.</p>
<p>3) The third type of people are those, who worship Narayana, without prayers for anything. They leave everything to Narayana. Even granting of moksha is left to Him. So, these are the most devoted people.</p>
<li>What is Prapatti?</li>
<p>Prapatti is also called self-surrender, saranagati, bharanyasa and nyasa. If you adopt prapatti, the sastras declare that you can attain Paramapada at the end of this life itself.</p>
<li>What is the difference between Bhakti, as described in the various vidyas and Prapatti?</li>
<p>The major differences only</p>
<p>1. Bhakti is restricted to certain people. Prapatti can be adopted by any person and can be done for any living being.</p>
<p>2. Bhakti in the form prescribed in the Upanishads is practically not done now. Prapatti is being practised widely.</p>
<p>3. In the case of those who adopt bhakti, it is not definite whether they will attain salvation at the end of this life or they will have to continue their effort over several births. In the case of prapatti, sastras declare that a person attains salvation at the end of this life itself.</p>
<li>Do the rituals like yaga, which have been prescribed in the karma kanda of the Vedas, lead us to this salvation?</li>
<p>No. The performance of these rituals like yagas, gives us only limited results such as attainment of svarga (or heaven).</p>
<li>Is svarga the same as Paramapada?</li>
<p>No, svarga and Paramapada are entirely different.</p>
<p>Svarga is a celestial world, a world higher up in the universe. This is full of enjoyment, where there are Devas and Gandharvas.</p>
<p>The enjoyment in svarga is only for a limited period. The period may vary, depending upon the punya or the good things done by an individual. He may stay on, for longer periods, in svarga. In any case. there is return to this world from svarga.	 It is also just another world, of a superior type, compared with our world here.</p>
<p>But, moksha or Paramapada is something, which is eternal, which is permanent. There we have Sriman Narayana with Mahalakshmi and Nityasuris, about whom I have described earlier. Nitya Suris are Garuda, Adisesha, Vishvaksena and others. Also, all liberated souls are there in the Paramapada or Sri Vaikunta.</p>
<p>So, Paramapada is eternal and everlasting; and is the ultimate goal for every individual. Hence svarga and Paramapada are completely different.</p>
<li>Are the results of performing rituals like yagas, only temporary in character and not permanent?</li>
<p>The rituals, described in the karma kanda of the Vedas, by their nature, are supposed to be done for the pleasure of the Lord. If they are done, for achieving specific results like svarga, the results are not permanent</p>
<li>So, what has to be done for attaining liberation and enjoying the Paramapada?</li>
<p>Only, bhakti or prapatti, , can lead to immortality and salvation</p>
<li>If so, what is the need to learn the karma kanda and purva mimamsa, since they mainly talk of rituals?</li>
<p>It is true that the karma kanda of the Vedas and purva mimamsa of Jaimini, discuss mainly performance of rituals. But still a study of these is recommended, to understand that they in fact lead only to temporary results.</p>
<p>After studying the karma kanda and the purva mimamsa,and understanding that the performance of rituals leads only to temporary results; a man should proceed to study brahma sutra and understand Brahman.</p>
<li>The Lord has given the Vedas and sastras, for helping and has also given him intelligence. So, in	spite of all these things, man is not progressing. Man is not benefiting by the sastras. Why is it so?</li>
<p>1) People, unfortunately, do not make use of the sastras and knowledge the Lord has provided. Some people foolishly think that they are their own masters; and they are interested only in the worldly pleasures. So, they do not bother about the Lord.</p>
<p>2) The second type of people are indifferent towards God. They also think that it is difficult to worship Him.</p>
<p>3) The third type of people are misled and deceived by the so- called rationalists, who argue that there is no God,</p>
<p>4) Lastly, there are people, the worst type, who are positively hostile towards God and hate Him.</p>
<p>So, these are the four types of people, who do not make use of the sastras and who go on committing deadly sins.</p>
<li>What are the types of people, who worship the Lord?</li>
<p>Here again, there are four types of people.</p>
<p>1)The first type are those who have lost wealth. They want to regain the lost wealth. They worship the Lord for regaining the lost wealth (Artha).</p>
<p>2)The second type of people are those who are not satisfied with what they have. They want more and more wealth; they want more and more power, They pray to the Lord for getting more and more wealth and power (Artharthi)</p>
<p>3)The third type of people are those who do not have any worldly desires. But they want the experience of their own soul. Experiencing one&#8217;s own soul is called Kaivalya. So they pray seeking to experience Kaivalya (Jijnasu).</p>
<p>4)The fourth type. of people are really the intelligent ones. Their goal is only to attain moksha and to be with Brahman worshipping Him eternally. They are the people who love God and whom God also loves dearly (Jnani).</p>
<li>Which of these four types of people are the best?</li>
<p>Out of these four types, the last mentioned, namely, those, who want to attain moksha only and enjoy Brahman, are naturally the best and the wisest. Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita that these are the real intelligent people.</p>
<p>Krishna says that such type of people are extremely rare to find. These people believe that everything is the Lord; and the Lord is everything to them.</p>
<li>We find there are many people, who worship other deities, other than Narayana.?</li>
<p>People worship other deities for fulfilment of their desires, for securing wealth and property. But Krishna says in the Gita that although they worship other deities, in reality, they are worshipping Narayana only.</p>
<li>How is it possible?</li>
<p>This is because, as per our fundamental system of philosophy, all others are bodies, and Narayana is the soul of all chetanas and achetanas. Naturally, the other deities are also chetanas. So, Narayana is the soul of other deities also.</p>
<p>So, when people worship other deities, actually they worship Narayana only. But they do not know that Narayana is the soul of other deities also.</p>
<li>Are their desires granted by other deities?</li>
<p>For this also we have Krishna&#8217;s reply in the Gita. He says that although people worship other deities, their desires are fulfilled by Narayana only, as the inner soul of those deities.</p>
<li>What is the difference in the fulfilment of desires by worshipping other deities, and by worshipping Narayana?</li>
<p>Individual desires or fruits the people get, by worshipping other deities, are of limited duration. Because, those deities themselves are not eternal. They are also like human beings. They have their own life span.</p>
<p>No doubt, their life time is much longer, as compared to the life of a human being. But still, they also have a specific or fixed lifetime. So, the desires or fruits got, by worshipping these deities,are also only for a short period.</p>
<p>But moksha can be attained only by worshipping Narayana.</p>
<li>What happens to those people who worship other deities?</li>
<p>Krishna says that people who worship other deities, reach those deities. But, those deities themselves, are not eternal or permanent and so there is no question of salvation for such people; But those who worship Narayana reach Him in Sri Vaikunta, never to return.</p>
<li>How is it that people worship other deities and do not know Narayana&#8217;s greatness?</li>
<p>They do not understand the true greatness of Narayana; and, the secret behind His avataras. Just because He is taking avataras like Rama and Krishna, people think that Rama and Krishna are also ordinary human beings and so they do not worship Rama and Krishna.</p>
<p>They do not know that the avataras of the Lord, are only to bless the human beings; to protect the good and virtuous people and to destroy the wicked people; and to establish dharma, a well ordered way of life.</p>
<p>So, without knowing these secrets, people think that Rama and Krishna are just ordinary human beings.</p>
<li>What are the three qualities Sattva, Rajas and Tamas.?What are these qualities?.</li>
<p>1) Sattvika quality produces clear and definite knowledge. It produces interest in learning good things. It gives pleasure to the mind, so that the person can worship the Lord with devotion.</p>
<p>2) Rajasa quality is that which produces love bet ween man and woman. It also produces desires of the senses, like listening to music, seeing good and pleasant things. This quality also produces desire to be with children, grand children and friends.</p>
<p>3) Tamasa quality is the worst of the three qualities. It leads to perverse and wrong know- ledge. It results in carelessness and laziness. Tamasa quality creates desire for the wrong type of happiness. The tamasa quality leads a person astray, creates false knowledge and induces him to do wrong things.</p>
<li>Does a person have only on of these qualities?</li>
<p>No. Every person has all the three qualities, but in different proportions. Some people have an excess Of sattvika quality. Some others have an excess of rajasa quality. Again some others have an excess of tamasa quality.</p>
<p>Even in the same person, at one time, sattvika quality will be predominant. During such times, he will think good and do good things. In the same person, at some other time, the rajasa quality becomes predominant, inducing him to do things pertaining to that quality, as mentioned before.</p>
<p>Again at some other time, the tamasa quality gets the upper hand, inducing him to pursue undesi- rable activities</p>
<li>How do these qualities come about, at different times, in the same person?</li>
<p>Well, the karma theory is the answer for it. Based on the person&#8217;s previous karmas. different qualities rule him at different times. This also depends upon the type of food he takes.</p>
<li>How does the type of food influence the qualities?</li>
<p>1) Foods which are sweet and nourishing, pleasing to look at, are liked by people, in whom the sattvika quality is predominant.</p>
<p>2) Foods which are bitter or sour, excessively hot and producing a burning sensation in the stomach, are liked by those, who have the rajasa quality predominantly.</p>
<p>3) Food, which has deteriorated due to lapse of time, rotten, foul-smelling; and left over of food earlier consumed by impure persons; is liked by those in whom the tamasa quality is predominant. Also, the food which has not been offered to God,is liked by the tamasic people.</p>
<li>It is said that one has to be pure, in regard to 1)	body, 2) speech and 3) mind (mano-vak-kaya).Please explain.</li>
<p>Purity of body means:- 1)showing due respect and doing namaskara, to the elders and learned people;</p>
<p>2) Keeping the body clean, by bathing in holy waters and rivers.</p>
<p>3)Not pursuing activities which are prohibited by sastras;</p>
<p>4)Not hurting other living beings.</p>
<li>What does purity of speech mean?</li>
<p>It means:</p>
<p>1)speaking the truth, without causing any harm to others</p>
<p>2)Speaking sweet words without causing anger or hatred in others,</p>
<p>3)Reciting the Vedas and Divya prabandha.</p>
<li>What is purity of mind?</li>
<p>It means:</p>
<p>1) not having any bad thought;</p>
<p>2) keeping the mind pure and clean;</p>
<p>3) always thinking about the Lord.</p>
<li>What about giving of gifts to others?</li>
<p>The giving of gifts is also classified into three categories sattvika, rajasa, tamasa.</p>
<li>What is the sattvika type of gift?</li>
<p>Gifts given to deserving persons, at the time when they are needy, are of sattvic type. Such gifts should be given, without expecting anything in return, from the other person</p>
<li>What is the rajasa type of gifts?</li>
<p>Gifts made in return for gifts received earlier. Similarly, giving away useless things, which are not required by the giver; giving gifts, expecting some advantage at a later date; are also considered as rajasa type</p>
<li>What is the tamasa type of gifts?</li>
<p>Gifts of things, which are prohibited by sastras; gifts which are given to undeserving persons, who may use these gifts for immoral purposes; gifts which are given with pride and merely for publicity; are all of tamasic type.</p>
<li>What about performing works, ordained by sastras?</li>
<p>All works should be done as a matter of duty, till death. While performing these works, they should give up the idea, that they are doing them. They should be clear that actually God is getting the work done through them for His pleasure.</p>
<p>Similarly they should do the work, without aiming for the fruit; i.e., without being interested in the fruit of action. They should leave the end results to God.</p>
<li>What are the types of tyagas?.</li>
<p>There are three types of tyagas, depending upon the quality: sattvika tyaga, rajasa tyaga, tamasa tyaga.</p>
<li>What is sattvika tyaga?</li>
<p>The duties, as prescribed by sastras, are done as a matter of devotion to the Lord; as worship of the Lord. Here the person does not think, that he is doing the duties.</p>
<p>He understands that God is getting the duties performed through him, for God&#8217;s pleasure. So, he dedicates the fruits of his works also to the Lord. Such a type of tyaga is called sattvika tyaga.</p>
<p>In other words, whatever comes on, he takes calmly. He only does his duties as prescribed by the sastras. Whether he gets good results or bad results, he does not bother. He continues doing his prescribed duties.</p>
<li>What is rajasa tyaga?</li>
<p>Some persons give up the duties prescribed by Sastras because of difficulties in getting money and materials. Some persons give up the duties because of laziness. This is called rajasa tyaga</p>
<li>What is tamasa tyaga?</li>
<p>The sastras have prescribed certain compulsory duties (Karmas), like sandhyavandana and tarpana. If a person gives up the performance of these compulsory duties due to some wrong ideas Or false notions this is called tamasa tyaga.</p>
<li>Again, how are the works classified as sattvika, rajasa or tamasa?</li>
<p>Works which are done, as prescribed in the sastras, without thinking that we are actually doing, are sattvika works. We should be clear that it is only the Lord, who gets these things done by us. So, without any desire for fruits or results, we should do the work, as prescribed in the Sastras</p>
<li>What is rajasa type of work?</li>
<p>If a person does his work, and is proud that he is doing the work; if he does the work, with a desire for good results, and, for enjoyment of worldly pleasures; this type of work is rajasa work.</p>
<li>What is tamasa type of work?</li>
<p>If a man does the work, in ignorance, without understanding the implications; if he is not able to get the work done fully; if the work is done, against sastras; this is the tamasa type of work.</p>
<li>How do you classify persons as sattvika, rajasa or tamasa?</li>
<p>1) The person, who does not bother about the results; who remains unaffected by success or failure; is sattvika by nature. He is clear it is only the Lord who gets the work done by him.</p>
<p>2) If a person does the work, with a desire for good results, or with a desire for fame; if he does work, even at the cost of trouble or pain to others; he is of rajasa type.</p>
<p>3) A person who does a work, against the commands of sastras; who is lazy and is not qualified to do the work; who is deceitful; is of the tamasa type.</p>
<li>What exactly is moksha?</li>
<p>In Sanskrit the word &#8220;Moksha&#8221; actually means deliverance or freedom (from the bondage of samsara; from the cycle of births and deaths).</p>
<p>But we say that moksha means not only freedom from samsara, but also attaining Paramapada or Sri Vaikunta and enjoying the Lord.</p>
<li>What are the different kinds of moksha. ?</li>
<p>Moksha or Paramapada is only one and is unique. But there, are certain stages, which come very close to moksha or Paramapada. Let me describe them.</p>
<p>1) Salokya &#8211; is attaining the world, which is one of the Lord&#8217;s; but is not exactly Sri Vaikunta; but the nearby worlds;</p>
<p>2) Sarupya &#8211; is the attainment of a form, resembling the Lord&#8217;s. This is obtained, as a result of constant meditation on one of the forms, like Rama or Krishna. For example, by constant meditation of Rama, the jivatma may attain a form resembling Rama. This is called Sarupya.</p>
<p>3) Samipya &#8211; is attainment of a place, near Sri Vaikunta but not Sri Vaikunta itself.</p>
<p>4) Sayujya &#8211; is actual attainment of Paramapada or Sri Vaikunta.</p>
<p>Sayujya alone is the real moksha. The other three, namely salokya, sarupya and samipya are very close to Sayujya.</p>
</ol>
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		<item>
		<title>A Dialog on Hinduism &#8211; Iswara &#8211; The Lord and Master &#8211; Chapter 6</title>
		<link>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-iswara-the-lord-and-master/</link>
		<comments>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-iswara-the-lord-and-master/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ramasamy Ramanuja Dasan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Dialog On Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[iswara]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jivatma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[paramatma]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/?p=70</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan

What is the essential nature of Iswara?
The essential nature of Iswara is truth, knowledge, infiniteness, happiness and purity. He is present everywhere. He knows everything.
Why is He called Bhagavan?
He possesses six qualities and that is why He is called Bhagavan. Bhaga in Sanskrit means good quality.
What are these six qualities?
These are: [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="author">By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan</div>
<ol class="faq">
<li>What is the essential nature of Iswara?</li>
<p>The essential nature of Iswara is truth, knowledge, infiniteness, happiness and purity. He is present everywhere. He knows everything.</p>
<li>Why is He called Bhagavan?</li>
<p>He possesses six qualities and that is why He is called Bhagavan. Bhaga in Sanskrit means good quality.</p>
<li>What are these six qualities?</li>
<p>These are: 1) Knowledge 2) Lordship 3) Strength 4) Valour 5) Energy and 6) Splendour.</p>
<li>We have heard people saying that Iswara is the cause of this world. Please explain.</li>
<p>You have a potter and the mud pot. The pot is made from the material mud. So mud is the cause and pot is the effect. Mud is called as the material cause of pot (UpadanaKarana). Now, mud by itself cannot change into a pot. The potter has to change the mud into a pot. So, in the making of the pot, the potter is also the cause, like the mud. The potter is called the instrumental cause (Nimitta Karana). Thus, for a mud pot, the mud is the material cause and the potter is the instrumental cause. I will give you another example. Take the case of a weaver. The weaver weaves a cloth out of the raw material yarn. In this case, the cloth is the produced effect. For the cloth, the yarn is the material cause and the weaver is the instrumental cause.</p>
<li>Are there any other causes for such things?</li>
<p>Again, take the example of the mud pot and the potter. Now, just with mud alone, the potter cannot make the pot. He requires the wooden wheel and some other similar wooden implements to make the pot out of the mud. Such implements like the wooden wheel are called the supporting cause (sahakari karana). So, summarising, we have three causes for producing anything. One is the material cause (upadana karana); the second is the instrumental cause (nimitta karana); and the third is the supporting cause (sahakari karana).</p>
<li>So far as creation of the world is concerned, what is the relationship of Iswara or Brahman?</li>
<p>Brahman is the material cause in the creation of the world. He is also the instrumental cause in the creation. There is no supporting cause required for Him in the creation of the world. Or, we can also say that He is also the supporting cause in the creation of the world. If we consider the world as a pot. He is both the mud and the potter, for the creation of the pot (i.e. the world).</p>
<li>What is the difference between creation and evolution of the world?</li>
<p>Brahman is the material cause; so, we say that Brahman evolves into the world. Brahman is the instrumental cause; so, we say that Brahman creates the world. Thus, the evolution of the world means that Brahman is the material. in case. Creation of the world means that Brahr the instrumental cause. (Just as mud evolves&#8217;into mudpot; the potter creates the pot.)</p>
<li>He is the instrumental cause in the creation, but it is rather	hard for one to understand that He is also the material cause. How can Brahman or Iswara Himself change into the world,just as the mud changes into pot or just as the yarn changes into cloth?</li>
<p>I shall describe this to you in some detail. We should fully accept the authority of the Vedas. Let me quote to you the following passages from the Vedas, which make it clear that Brahman is also the material cause. &#8220;He thought may I become many.&#8221; &#8220;The Brahman is the wood. Then Brahman became the tree.&#8221; &#8220;He desired may I become many.&#8221; &#8220;He became defined and undefined, real and unreal. Yet He remained as real. The wise perceive Him as the source of beings.&#8221; There are many other passages also, which clearly show that Brahman is the material cause of the world, besides being the instrumental cause. A story in Chandogya Upanishad says that there was a young boy Svetaketu who was sent by his father to a teacher for learning. He studied under the teacher for 12 years and after study, returned home.</p>
<p>His father asked Svetaketu: &#8220;I find that you are arrogant and you are thinking that you have learnt everything. Do you know about that, by knowing which everything else becomes known?&#8221; Svetaketu did not know, how by knowing one thing, all other things will become known. So, his father proceeds to give examples and teaches him. The father says:</p>
<p>1. From mud, we make pots and dolls. So by knowing mud, all that is made of mud, is also known; because they are all products from the same basic raw material mud.</p>
<p>2. Similarly, we make jewels out of gold. So, by knowing gold, all that is made of gold, like jewels, are also known; because they are only modifications or products of gold.</p>
<p>3. Again, from iron, we make so many materials like knife and scissors. So, by knowing iron, all the products that are made of iron, also become known; because basically there is only iron and all others are only modifications of iron. Similarly, by knowing Brahman, the whole world and everything in it becomes known.</p>
<li>So, what do we understand from these examples?</li>
<p>From this, it is clear that Brahman is compared to mud or gold or iron, out of which, pot or jewel or knife (respectively) are made. From mud comes the pot. So, by knowing mud,everything made of mud becomes known. Similarly. Brahman evolves in to the world and all other things. Hence by knowing Brahman, everything else becomes known. This is the meaning of these examples. In other words, Brahman is the material cause (upadana karana) of whatever we see in the world; just as mud is the material cause of mud pot; just as gold is the material cause of gold jewels; and just as iron is the material cause of knife and scissors.</p>
<li>Please explain further about Brahman being the material cause of the world.</li>
<p>The Chandogya Upanishad states as follows:- &#8220;Then the Brahman desired &#8220;may I become many, may I grow&#8221;. Then it created fire, etc.&#8221; From this, it is clearly seen that the Brahman evolved into the world; because the Brahman says &#8220;may I become many.&#8221; So it is proved that Brahman is the material cause.</p>
<p>After this, the Chandogya Upanishad describes (he three-fold division of elements. I have already described this to you earlier. Further, it is said that Brahman desired and said &#8220;I will create names and forms.&#8221; So, this also shows that Brahman is both the material cause and the instrumental cause.</p>
<li>What is the position of Jivatma, before and after pralaya?</li>
<p>At the beginning of creation, namely, after the pralaya, the matter and Jivatmas are all merged, in an extremely subtle state, in Brahman. Then the Brahman desired &#8220;may I become many&#8221;.He then created the elements and the worlds, out of Himself. Then He gave them names and forms. So, the Brahman becomes both the material and the instrumental cause (upadana karana and nimitta karana).</p>
<li>Are there any other passages in the Upanishads	which explain that the Brahman is the material cause?</li>
<p>There are very interesting examples in Mundaka Upanishad. Saunaka asks Angiras:- &#8220;What is that, by knowing which, everything else in the world becomes known&#8221;?</p>
<p>Angiras proceeds to explain. He gives the example of a spider. A spider creates thin threads, out of its own body and mouth and spits them out. It weaves a web around its body, out of these threads. The spider, then, eats back the threads forming the web. In other words, the threads come out. of the spider and are eaten back by the spider,</p>
<p>Similarly, Brahman creates the world, out of Himself and again withdraws the whole thing, the world, into Himself, at the time of deluge. This example clearly shows that Brahman is the material cause of the world. There is another example in the same Upanishad. The plants and herbs grow from the earth, i.e.,come out of the earth. In the same way, the world also comes out of Brahman. Thus, the teacher Angiras explains that, since the world and everything else comes out of Brahman; by knowing Brahman, everything else becomes known. There is another example given in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. Yagnavalkya tells his wife that, by knowing Brahman, the whole world and everything else becomes known; and proceeds to give an example. From a moist and wet firewood, we try to light up fire. But only smoke comes out, because of wetness of the firewood. Just as smoke comes out of the wet firewood, all the world and everything else, come out of Brahman. These examples show that Brahman is the material cause of the world.</p>
<li>You say that the Lord &#8211; Iswara &#8211; is present	everywhere. Have our Alwars and Acharyas specifically stated so?</li>
<p>Yes. Nammalwar says that the Lord is present everywhere, as the soul in the body. He also gives a beautiful simile. He says that the Lord is present everywhere and in everything, like ghee in the milk. We cannot straightaway see ghee in the milk. Milk has to be turned into curd. From curd, you churn and get butter. You heat the butter to get ghee.Thus, although ghee is in milk, we cannot see the ghee directly. Similarly, God is in everything, although we cannot see Him directly with our eyes.</p>
<li>Is this Lord&#8217;s presence in everything mentioned in theVedas?</li>
<p>Yes, in several places. Let me give you some beautiful examples from Svetasvatara Upanishad.</p>
<p>The Paramatma is in the Jivatma, like</p>
<p>oil in til seeds (sesame):</p>
<p>butter in curds:</p>
<p>water in the earth (under ground):</p>
<p>fire in wood.</p>
<p>Although the Upanishad mentions Paramatma&#8217;s presence in Jivatma, the extension of this principle shows Paramatma&#8217;s presence in everything.</p>
<li>What about our Acharyas?</li>
<p>We have the great Alavandar, who has also used the simile of ghee in milk (like Nammalwar), to show the presence of the Lord in everything.</p>
<li>Who exactly is Brahman or Iswara? Is there one single deity, who is supreme?</li>
<p>Here are some passages from the Vedas which will answer your query.</p>
<p>1) &#8220;There was only one Narayana, no Brahma, no Rudra&#8221;</p>
<p>2) &#8220;From His forehead, the three-eyed person, having Sula is born; the four-faced Brahma is bom.&#8221;</p>
<p>3) &#8220;Brahma is born from Narayana, Rudra is bom from Narayana&#8221;</p>
<p>4) &#8220;Brahma is Narayana, Siva is Narayana, Indra is Narayana, The directions are Narayana. All things are Narayana&#8221;</p>
<p>5) &#8220;There is only one Divine Being &#8211; Narayana&#8221;</p>
<p>6) &#8220;Narayana is the inner soul of all beings,&#8221;</p>
<p>7) &#8220;He crosses the human bondage of samsara and reaches the Paramapada of Vishnu.&#8221;</p>
<p>8) &#8220;Among the Devas, fire (Agni) is the lowest and Vishnu is the highest:</p>
<p>9) &#8220;He created Brahma as before and taught him the Vedas.&#8221;</p>
<p>10) &#8220;From the Brahma&#8217;s forehead, Rudra was born.&#8221;</p>
<p>11) &#8220;The Universe is Narayana.&#8221;</p>
<p>12) &#8220;Narayana is the supreme Brahman. Narayana is the supreme truth or reality. Narayana is the supreme light. Narayana is the supreme atma or Paramatma. Whatever is in this world, seen or heard, all that is pervaded by Narayana, both within and without. He is Brahma. He is Siva. He is Indra.&#8221;</p>
<p>From these, it will be clear to you who is the supreme deity, who is the Brahman and who is Iswara. There are innumerable such passages in the Vedas.</p>
<li>Where does this last passage, &#8220;He is Brahma, He	is Siva, He is Indra&#8221; occur?</li>
<p>This passage occurs in Taittiriya Upanishad. This is called Narayana Anuvaka.</p>
<li>Doesnt this occurs in Maha Narayana Upanishad</li>
<p>Actually it forms part of Taittiriya Upanishad. But some modern people call it by a separate name as Maha Narayana Upanishad.</p>
<li>You read the passage as &#8220;He is Brahma, He is	Siva, He is Indra.&#8221; But some people read it as &#8220;He is Brahma, He is Siva, He is Hari, He is Indra.&#8221;Which is correct?</li>
<p>The Vedic passage should read without the words &#8220;He is Hari&#8221;. The words &#8220;He is Hari&#8221; are later interpolation; and it is not correct.</p>
<li>How do you say that the words &#8220;He is Hari&#8221; are later interpolation and not correct?</li>
<p>The reason is very simple. If you add the words. &#8220;He is Hari&#8221; in this verse in the Vedas, the metre becomes incorrect. According to Sanskrit grammar, the metre of the verse is correct, only if the words &#8220;He is Hari&#8221; are not there. Thus it is very clear that the words &#8220;He is Hari&#8221; are only interpolation, at a much later period.</p>
<li>What was the need for this interpolation, at a later stage?</li>
<p>With the interpolation, it reads as &#8220;He is Brahma, He is Siva, He is Hari, He is Indra.&#8221; This will give an impression that all the three viz., Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are equal, as also Indra. So, perhaps this was the intention of the people who interpolated, that all the Gods should be treated as equals.</p>
<li>Are these passages in the Vedas also supported by Smritis, Itihasas and Puranas?</li>
<p>Yes. Here they are.</p>
<p>1) Varaha Purana: Narayana is the supreme deity. From Him was born the 4-faced Brahma and from Brahma arose Rudra.</p>
<p>2) Mahabharata: when the Jivatma and matter have gone into dissolution, i.e., during the deluge (pralaya), there is only one remaining and He is Lord Narayana.</p>
<p>3) Mahabharata: There is no being in the world that is eternal or permanent, except Vasudeva.</p>
<p>4) Harivamsa: Siva&#8217;s words to Narayana; &#8220;Brahma is called Ka and I am called Isa. We two were born from your limbs. Therefore, you are called Kesava.&#8221;</p>
<p>5) Mahabharata: Brahma&#8217;s words to Siva: &#8220;I was born by His grace and you from His anger, in one of the earlier creations.&#8221;</p>
<p>6) Mahabharata: Brahma, Rudra and Indra together with all other devas and rishis, worshipped the divine Narayana, the greatest of Gods.</p>
<p>7) Ramayana: Rudra sacrificed all things in a great yaga called Sarvamedha and then sacrificed himself also mentally.</p>
<p>8) Ramayana: They knew Vishnu is greater .(than Siva).</p>
<p>9) Mahabharata: These two, Brahma and Rudra, who are the greatest among the devas, are born out of the Lord&#8217;s grace and anger. They perform the duties of creation and destruction, as ordered by Him.</p>
<p>10) Mahabharata: The devas are under the protection of Rudra. Rudra is under the protection of Brahma. Brahma is under my protection. I do not need the protection of anyone, I am the refuge of all.</p>
<p>11) Vishnupurana: Brahma, Daksha, Rudra, all these are among the attributes of Bhagavan.</p>
<p>12) Mahabharata: The words of Brahma to Rudra: &#8220;He (Narayana) is the inner soul of you, of me and all beings. He sees everything, but cannot be seen by anyone or anywhere.&#8221;</p>
<p>13) Rudra says in Mantra Raja Pada stotra: All beings are the servants of Paramatma. Therefore, I am also your servant and with this knowledge, I bow to you.</p>
<p>14) Mahabharata: There is no one superior to Narayana, the God of the lotus eyes. There is no God superior to Vishnu.</p>
<p>15) Naradapurana: There is no divine being, higher than Kesava.</p>
<p>16) Mahabharata: He (Vishnu) is the king of all kings. He is the Iswara, He is the father. He is the creator,</p>
<p>17) Mahabharata: Those intelligent people do not worship Brahma or Rudra or any other devas, because the fruit of their worship is limited.</p>
<p>18) Mahabharata: Lord Narayana told the devas: &#8220;This Brahma is your father and mother and grandfather. He will give you boons under instructions from me. Rudra, his younger brother, had his origin from my forehead. Rudra will grant boons to beings under instructions from Brahma.&#8221;</p>
<p>19) Bhagavad Gita: Krishna says: &#8220;Those who do sacrifices to other deities, they also do sacrifice only to Me; but not in the proper manner and according to rules.&#8221; 20) Ramayana: Brahma, the three-eyed Rudra &#8211; cannot save a person from being killed in war, by Rama.</p>
<p>21) Mahabharata: Meditating always of the Lord, Brahma, Rudra and others have not yet realised the Lord&#8217;s nature.</p>
<p>22) Mahabharata: Mahadeva (Rudra) sacrificed -himself in Sarvamedha yaga and became Devadeva.</p>
<p>23) Mahabharata: He, whom Madhusudana sees at the time of birth, becomes Sattvika &#8211; If Brahma or Rudra sees him at the time of birth, he is rilled with Rajoguna and Tamoguna (respectively).</p>
<p>24) Mahabharata: Narayana is Parabrahma. Narayana is Paratattva. He is greater than the greatest. There is none greater than Him.</p>
<p>25) Mahabharata: Siva said: I was bora from His (Narayana&#8217;s) head &#8211; He is the one, fit to be worshipped always &#8211; By seeing Him, all other devas can also be deemed to be seen. I (Siva) also worship Him (Narayana) always &#8211; All of us, devas, reside in His body.</p>
<p>26) Vyasa: This is the Truth, Truth and Truth. There is no greater deity than Kesava.</p>
<p>27) Harivamsa: Siva said:- Only Hari is to be meditated upon, always. He is to be worshipped always. I (Siva) help in the worship of Hari.</p>
<p>28) Vishnu Purana: The world is born out of Vishnu and rests in Him. He is the world &#8211; He resides in all; and all beings reside in Him. Hence He is called Vasudeva. He is the Parabrahma.</p>
<p>29) Varaha Purana: Lord Narayana was at the beginning. From Him was born Brahma.</p>
<p>30) Bhagavata: Brahma said:- I, Brahma, create the world, commanded by Narayana. Siva, controlled by Narayana, destroys the world.</p>
<p>31) Bhagavata: The water from (washing) the feet of Vamana, which was borne on the head, with supreme devotion, by Kailasa vasa, Chandra mouli (Siva)&#8230;.</p>
<p>32) Bhagavata: Brahma to Vishnu: We &#8211; Rudra and others &#8211; drink with our 11 senses, the honey in your lotus-like feet. 33) Bhagavata: Rudra to Krishna: You are the highest jyotis. The sky is your navel, agni is your mouth &#8211; You are the first purusha. You have no equal or superior. Myself (Rudra), the devas and rishis &#8211; all seek refuge in you. You are everything to us. You are our atma and ruler. You have no equal or superior; there is nobody else to be approached for protection. I come to you so that my samsara may be ended. 34) Bhagavata: Rudra to Parvati:- You asked me, when I rose from my yoga on whom I meditated. That person is Bhagavan (Narayana), whose maya, you have just witnessed. He is eternal.</p>
<p>35) Bhagavata: Rudra:- One, &#8230; who loves Bhagavan Vasudeva, goes after a hundred births to the world of Brahma; then he comes to my world. He will then reach the eternal world of Vishnu, as myself, Indra and other devas will do, at the expiration of our authority.</p>
<p>36) Bhagavata: Markandeya to Rudra: I will ask for this boon:- &#8220;May my love for Bhagavan (Narayana), for those that regard Him as the highest goal, and for you, remain unshaken.&#8221; Rudra: &#8220;You will be a lover of Bhagavan (Narayana).&#8221;</p>
<p>37) Parvati asks Siva: &#8220;I want to hear from you this: How do the learned people recite the 1000 names of Vishnu easily? Siva replies: &#8220;It is enough, if you say Rama. This is equivalent to all 1000 names of Vishnu. I also enjoy saying the name of Rama.&#8221; I have quoted above, only very few passages. There are innumerable such passages in smrtis, puranas and itihasas stating that Narayana is the supreme deity.</p>
<li>In some places in the Vedas, Siva is also called as the supreme deity. How do you explain this contradiction?</li>
<p>I have to tell you one thing. Narayana is a proper noun. According to Sanskrit grammar, Narayana can mean only one person. It cannot mean any Other person. But, Siva, Rudra and Sambhu are common nouns. Siva means an auspicious person. Rudra means, one who weeps or one who is dreadful. Sambhu means one who grants happiness and prosperity. So, these are common nouns. So, as common nouns, they can refer to any person, including Narayana; although normally they apply to Siva. This is on the authority of Sanskrit grammar.</p>
<li>Can you give some examples?</li>
<p>We have a word in Sanskrit, called Sarasija. This is a common noun. This means that which comes out from a lake. There are so many flowers, which come out from a lake, i.e., which are there in a lake. But still, by common understanding, Sarasija means only a lotus flower. Similarly, there is a word Pankaja in Sanskrit. This means that which comes out of mud or slush. Again, so many flowers can sprout out of mud or slush. But it is commonly accepted in Sanskrit, that Pankaja refers only to Lotus. So, two of the common nouns, Sarasija and Pankaja, although they can apply to all flowers, are still taken to refer only to Lotus. Similarly, Sambhu, Siva and Rudra are common nouns. So, they can refer to any deity or person, although normally we identify these names with Siva.</p>
<li>So how do you explain the apparent contradiction?</li>
<p>We have to apply some logic here. We accept that the Vedas as a whole, are the ultimate authority. There is nothing in the Vedas, which is not authority. So, in a majority of passages, the word Narayana occurs as Paramatma. In some places, the word Siva or Rudra also occurs as Paramatma. Now, we have to be clear on one thing. Narayana, according to Sanskrit grammar, is a proper noun. It cannot refer to any other person. But Siva and Rudra are common nouns. So they can refer to any other person. Since we do not accept any contradiction among the different passages in the Vedas, we say that the words Siva and Rudra also, when they refer to Paramatma, actually mean Narayana, because these are common nouns.</p>
<li>Why can&#8217;t we take it that the word &#8216;Narayana&#8217; (as Paramatma) refers to Siva; instead of saying that the word &#8220;Siva&#8221; refers to Narayana?</li>
<p>The answer is very simple. Siva is a common noun. It can mean any person and hence it means Narayana in the particular context. But the word Narayana cannot refer to Siva, because Narayana is a proper noun. This is on the authority of Sanskrit grammar; and we have to accept the grammatical position.</p>
<li>Quote some passages in the Vedas, praising the greatness of Siva.</li>
<p>There are several passages in the Vedas, which praise the greatness of Brahma; which praise the greatness of Indra; which praise the greatness of Agni or fire. Similarly, many passages in the Vedas also praise the greatness of Siva. But the important thing to see is who is declared as the supreme deity or Paramatma. As I have explained to you so far, it is clear from the Vedas and Puranas and Itihasas, that Narayana is the Supreme deity, the Paramatma.</p>
<li>Why not we say that Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are all equal?</li>
<p>What you are saying is not supported by the fundamental authority, the Vedas. From the Vedic passages I have given above, you can see that the Vedas speak of only one supreme deity and that supreme deity is Narayana. There is nothing in the Vedas to show that two or three Gods are equal; and that two or three Gods can be considered as supreme deities. Further, as you will see from the quotations given earlier, both Brahma and Rudra themselves accept that they have come out of Narayana, that they are bom out of Narayana. Nowhere in the Vedas, is it stated that two or three Gods are equal; that Brahma, Vishnu and Siva are equal. The Vedas all along say that there is only one supreme deity and that is Narayana.</p>
<li>We have got the ancient Tamil works (Sangam literature), which are several thousand years old. What do these mention about the supreme deity?</li>
<p>All these ancient Tamil works also mention that Narayana is the supreme deity.</p>
<li>If Narayana is the supreme deity, why should Rama (His Avatara) worship another deity in Rameswaram, as people say?</li>
<p>This version is not authentic. We accept Valmiki Ramayana as the authority. There is no mention at all in Valmiki Ramayana about Rama worshipping any deity in Rameswaram. There is no such mention in the authoritative version of Kamba Ramayana also.</p>
<li>Similarly, there are stories that Narayana took the form of a boar (Varaha) and searched the feet of another deity; that Narayana took out his eye and surrendered it to Rudra and got chakra, etc. What do you say about these?</li>
<p>I can only say that these are not found in any ancient, authoritative works. These have not been quoted by Adi Sankara or any of the Acharyas, belonging to the other schools of Vedanta. These have not been mentioned in Sastras, which are accepted as authority.</p>
<li>Please tell me something more about Rudra</li>
<p>1) I will give you a quotation from Bhagavata: &#8220;The river Ganga is the greatest among all rivers. Narayana is the greatest of all deities. Siva is the greatest of all Vaishnavas. Bhagavata is the greatest of all Puranas.&#8221;</p>
<p>2) We accept Ahirbudhnya Samhita as one of the respected authorities. Here, Rudra has praised Narasimha in Mantra Raja Pada Stotra. Here, Rudra says as follows: &#8220;All the Jivatmas are the servants of you, the Paramatma. So, I am also your servant and worship you.&#8221;</p>
<p>3) Parvati asks Siva &#8220;How can the thousand names of Vishnu be recited easily every day?&#8221; Siva replies: &#8220;It is enough to say Rama. This is equal to thousand names of Vishnu. I also enjoy Uttering the name Rama.&#8221;</p>
<li>But Harivamsa says Krishna requested for a child, from Siva. How do you reconcile this?</li>
<p>Varahapurana says, that Rudra requested Narayana as follows: &#8220;Please grant me a favour. In one of your avataras, you should also pray to me and ask for somefavour.&#8221; Narayana agreed and said that in one of His avataras He will ask for a favour, from Rudra. That is why, in Krishna avatara. He requested Rudra for a child, as per the promise given earlier. This has been mentioned in Varahapurana. It will also be clear from the fact that, immediately after granting the favour for a child to Krishna, Rudra says as follows:- &#8220;Krishna, out of His simplicity only, came to me for a child. But He is the source of all beings. He is the protector of all. He is the supreme Tattva. He alone gives Moksha.&#8221; Summing up, it is only because of these things, that Vedavyasa says as follows:-</p>
<p>&#8220;This is the truth. This is the truth. Again, this is the truth. I raise my hands and say there is no greater authority than the Vedas. There is no greater deity than Kesava.&#8221; It is in keeping with this only, that Krishna says in Gita &#8220;It is I alone, who is understood from all the Vedas.&#8221;</p>
<li>Does it mean that we cannot give or we should not</li>
<p>No. It does not mean that. They are also highly respectable. We give them proper and utmost respect, like we will give to other respectable persons. Only thing is, on the authority of the Vedas. Narayana is the supreme deity.</p>
<li>We see that God Narayana also takes avataras like Rama and Krishna. Does it mean that He is also born in this world, like us?</li>
<p>No. We human beings or animals or trees are bom in this world because of our past karmas &#8211; punya and papa. There is no such thing as Karma or punya or papa for Lord Narayana. So, when He comes into this world, as Rama or Krishna, it is not like other Jivatmas. He comes into this world of His own free will and desire. So, it is not birth for the Lord, like we understand the birth of any of us.</p>
<li>Can you quote the authority of the Vedas?</li>
<p>The Vedas say that He is not born; but still, He is born in many ways.</p>
<li>Well, that sounds puzzling.</li>
<p>What the Vedas say is that He is not bom, because of past karma, like us. But He is born in many ways. He takes many avataras, like Rama and Krishna, out of His own free will, not bound by any karma.</p>
<li>Then are these avataras real</li>
<p>They are real. We have been reading the Ramayana and Mahabharata and Bhagavata. The avataras are real. In fact, the Bhagavad Gita has been preached by Krishna in this avatara only.</p>
<li>Why should He take avataras in this world?</li>
<p>This is to uphold dharma or righteousness. In the Gita, Krishna says that whenever there is a decline in righteousness or dharma, whenever adharma raises its head, then the Lord takes avataras in this world.</p>
<li>What is the purpose of these avataras?</li>
<p>The purpose is to protect the good people and punish the wicked; and to re-establish dharma.</p>
<li>Between the two, namely, protection of the good	people and punishing the wicked, which is the more important purpose of the avatara?</li>
<p>Certainly, protection of the good people is the more important purpose. Good people like rahlada, Vidura, Akrura and others desired to see the Lord, to worship Him in person. It is to bless such good people that the avataras are made. If it is only for punishing the wicked, this can be done even from Paramapada or Sri Vaikunta, by His simply desiring to that effect. The Sudarsana chakra is there to carry out His orders and for punishing the wicked.</p>
<li>When the Lord took avatara in this world, like Rama or Krishna, did He also have bodies like us, ordinary human beings, of flesh and blood?</li>
<p>No,Here Gita says that the bodies the Lord takes during these avataras are of Suddha Sattva. I have explained to you already, what is Suddha Sattva. So there is no question of the Lord having bodies like us, ordinary human beings.</p>
<li>What are the forms of Bhagavan Narayana?</li>
<p>We can say that, for the purposes of meditation, He has two forms. One is the divine and auspicious form. The second is, with the body consisting of Jivatmas and matter (chetana and achetana). This is what we saw earlier that Iswara or Narayana is the soul and Jivatma and matter are His body.</p>
<li>Please describe in a little more detail the divine and auspicious form, which you mentioned.</li>
<p>His form has four arms. His body shines like gold, He has eyes like lotus; feet like lotus; hands like lotus. This form is in Paramapada or Sri Vaikunta. Besides divine ornaments, He also has weapons, like the sankha and chakra, gada, sword and bow.</p>
<li>Lord Narayana has five kinds of forms. What are these?</li>
<p>The five forms are called:</p>
<p>1. Para. 2. Vyuha. 3. Vibhava. 4. Antaryami. 5. Archa.</p>
<li>Please describe the essential features of each of these forms. What is Para form?</li>
<p>The Para form is that of Sri Narayana in Paramapada or Sri Vaikunta. There, He is also called Para Vasudeva. The description of Sri Vaikunta is given in Kaushitaki Upanishad and also in the Sri Vaikunta Gadya of Ramanuja.The throne (simhasana) has eight legs, like dharma. The adisesha (serpent) is the seat. There Narayana shines along with Lakshmi, Bhudevi and Niladevi. He has four arms and has sankha,Chakra and gada. He has a number of ornaments.</p>
<li>What is the second form, i.e., Vyuha form?</li>
<p>This is a bit difficult and you have to listen carefully. The Lord Narayana assumes four forms by name, Vasudeva, Sankarshana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha.The first vyuha is Vasudeva. From the first vyuha Vasudeva, arises the second vyuha Sankarshana.From the second vyuha Sankarshana, arises the third vyuha Pradyumna. From the third vyuha Pradyumna, arises the fourth vyuha Aniruddha. As I told you earlier, the Lord is called Bhagavan, because He has six qualities. The six qualities are: 1) knowledge, 2) strength, 3) lordship, 4) valour, 5) energy and 6) splendour.</p>
<li>You are saying that because He has the six qualities, He is called Bhagavan and these qualities are not found in others. But we hear many people being called as Bhagavan, like Vyasa Bhagavan and Narada Bhagavan, How do you explain this?</li>
<p>We apply the word Bhagavan to others, only out of respect. When we say that Rama is a lion, it only shows that Rama is as majestic and strong as a lion. Similarly, when we say Vyasa Bhagavan, it is only a term of respect for Vyasa.</p>
<li>How do you differentiate between the four	Vyuhas, Vasudeva, Sankarshana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha?</li>
<p>Although these are all forms of the Lord, in Vasudeva, we have all the six qualities, which I have Just mentioned, in full.Of course, in the other three vyuhas also, all the six qualities are present; but some qualities arefound predominantly in some of the vyuhas. The qualities 1) Knowledge and 2) strength, are in plenty in Sankarshana. Similarly, the qualities, 3) lordship and 4) valour are in plenty in Pradyumna. The qualities, 5) energy and 6) splendour, are in plenty in Aniruddha.</p>
<li>What is the function of Vasudeva?</li>
<p>Vasudeva is the object of worship and enjoyment by the Jivatmas, who have attained salvation or moksha.</p>
<li>What is the function of Sankarshana?</li>
<p>We saw that Sankarshana has knowledge and strength in plenty. Because of the knowledge, as Sankarshana, the Lord promulgates the sastras. Because of the strength, as Sankarshana, He destroys the universe.</p>
<li>What about Pradyumna?</li>
<p>As Pradyumna, having in plenty lordship and valour, the Lord creates the universe, and makes dharma prevail.</p>
<li>What is the function of Aniruddha?</li>
<p>Aniruddha has in plenty energy and splendour. So, as Aniruddha, the Lord protects the world, and also teaches the truth</p>
<li>Is there any further sub-division of these vyuhas?</li>
<p>Yes. As we have been doing sandhyavandana, you know the 12 names of the Lord Narayana. The 12 names are: Kesava, Narayana, Madhava, Govinda, Vishnu, Madhusudana,, Trivikrama, Vamana, Sridhara, Hrishikesa, Padmanabha and Damodara. So, from each of the four Vyuhas mentioned above, the forms of three sub-Vyuhas appear. For example, from the first Vyuha of Vasudeva, we have the three sub-Vyuhas, Kesava, Narayana and Madhava. Similarly, from the second Vyuha Sankarshana, we have Govinda, Vishnu and Madhusudana. From the third Vyuha Pradyumna, we have, Trivikrama, Vamana and Sridhara. Finally, from the fourth Vyuha Aniruddha, we have Hrishikesa, Padmanabha and Damodara</p>
<li>What is the significance of these 12 sub-Vyuhas?</li>
<p>We state that symbolically they are called the Lords of the 12 months, beginning from the Tamil month of Margazhi. Kesava is the lord for the month of Margazhi. Narayana is the Lord for the month of Thai. Madhava is the Lord for the month of Masi and so on. For the 12 months, these 12 sub-Vyuhas are the Lords. We also wear the 12 urdhvapundras (Tirumann) in our body. These 12 Lords are respectively masters of each one of these.</p>
<li>Earlier you mentioned about para Vasudeva in	the first form of para. Again you mentioned as the first Vyuha Vasudeva. What is the difference	between the Para Vasudeva and Vyuha Vasudeva?</li>
<p>There is no difference at all. Both are differentiated only for the purposes of meditation. There is no other difference.</p>
<li>What is the third form of the Lord?</li>
<p>The third form of the Lord is called Vibhava. That is, when He takes avataras and comes down to this world. He takes the form of men like Rama or Krishna;or animals like fish, tortoise and boar. These avataras are called as the third form, or Vibhava, of the Lord</p>
<li>How many avataras are there?</li>
<p>There are ten avataras which are considered as the main and important ones.</p>
<li>What are they?</li>
<p>1) The first is called the avatara of fish. This was taken, because a demon took away the Vedas from Brahma and hid himself in the sea. So Lord Narayana took the form of a fish, to get back the Vedas from the demon and give them back to Brahma.</p>
<p>2) The second avatara is that of the tortoise. The Devas wanted to have the nectar or amrita, for immortality. So the Lord advised them to churn the milky ocean. Naturally, for churning the ocean, they required a support. The mountain of Mandara was used as the support.</p>
<p>But, when they started churning the ocean the mountain itself started sinking into the ocean. So the form of tortoise was taken to support the mountain itself, from the bottom and thus prevent it from sinking into the ocean.</p>
<p>3) The third avatara was that of the boar. The demon Hiranyaksha took away the mother earth. He rolled the earth and went down into the sea, with it. So the Lord took the form of a boar, ent into the sea, slayed the demon Hiranyaksha and brought back the mother earth. This was the urpose of the avatara as a boar.</p>
<p>4) The fourth avatara was that of Narasimha. You must be well aware of the story of Hiranya and his on Prahlada. Prahlada told Hiranya that the Lord is present everywhere. He is there even in a small rass, even in a pillar. So Hiranya wanted to break a pillar and see whether the Lord was there. When Hiranya kicked he pillar, Lord appeared as Narasimha, came out of the pillar and killed him.</p>
<p>5) The fifth avatara was that of Vamana. He went to the demon Mahabali, as a small boy;- and requested only for that much land which he would measure in three steps. When Mahabali granted his boon, He grew into Trivikrama and measured the whole earth and above. So this avatara is called as Vamana avatara. Vamana in Sanskrit means a dwarf. 6) The next one, i.e., the sixth avatara was that of Parasurama. In this avatara. He slayed the wicked kings, all over the world, to protect dharma.</p>
<p>7) The seventh avatara was that of Rama The Ramayana is too well known, and I need not repeat here the purpose of this avatara.</p>
<p>8) The eighth avatara was that of Balarama, who was the elder brother of Krishna.</p>
<p>9) The ninth avatara was that of Krishna &#8211; too well known</p>
<p>10) The tenth avatara is yet to materialise. This is called the avatara of Kalki, when the Lord will come on a horse, at the end of the Kali&#8221; yuga.</p>
<li>You have briefly told me about the ten avataras.Where can one get more details?</li>
<p>One can read about them in Vishnu Purana, Bhagavata, Ramayana and Mahabharata.</p>
<li>What are the four yugas</li>
<p>1) The first yuga is called Krita yuga. In that yuga, people would be highly religious, follow the principles of dharma, vedas and sastras.</p>
<p>2) The second yuga is Treta yuga. In this yuga,practice of dharma gets diminished.</p>
<p>3) The third yuga is Dvapara yuga. The practice of dharma in this yuga gets further -diminished.</p>
<p>4) The fourth and the last yuga is Kaliyuga. Here the practice of dharma is at its worst; adharma flourishes unabated. So, these are the four yugas. After every cycle of four yugas, there will be a great deluge (pralaya). After the deluge, again the cycle of the four yugas starts. The cycle of four yugas is unending</p>
<li>What are the characteristics of the four yugas?</li>
<p>There is a simile about the practice of dharma in the four yugas. Dharma is compared to a holy cow. This cow has four legs, i.e., it is perfect in Krita yuga. In the second yuga, namely, Treta yuga, the cow has only three legs, i.e., dharma starts diminishing. In the third yuga, which is Dvapara yuga, the cow of dharma has only two legs. And lastly in Kali yuga the holy cow is left with only one leg. This is a simile, to illustrate how dharma goes on diminishing, yuga after yuga.</p>
<li>Are these ten avataras only, called Vibhava?</li>
<p>No. These are the more important or principal avataras.</p>
<li>What are the Other avataras then, apart from these?</li>
<p>Apart from these ten principal avataras there are innumerable avataras like Padmanabha, Hayagriva, Hamsa (Swan) and even a small mango tree</p>
<li>Are there any further classifications of these avataras?</li>
<p>Yes, in a way, we can divide them as primary or important and secondary avataras.</p>
<li>What are the primary avataras?</li>
<p>The primary avataras are those ten described earlier. Out of these, even Parasurama avatara and Balarama avatara are considered secondary.</p>
<li>What do you mean by secondary avatara?</li>
<p>The secondary avataras are of two kinds:</p>
<p>1) where the Lord, enters a Jivatma, with His form;</p>
<p>2) where the Lord, without entering a Jivatma, in His own form, gives him extraordinary divine powers</p>
<li>What are the examples of secondary avataras,	where the Lord enters Jivatmas, in His own form?</li>
<p>Such avataras are like Parasurama and Balarama. These avataras were taken for specific purposes. The Parasurama avatara was for the purpose of destroying the kings who were practising adharma. Balarama avatara was to be of service and assistance to Krishna.</p>
<li>What are the types of secondary avataras, where the Lord, without entering Jivatmas in His own	form, gives them extraordinary powers?</li>
<p>We have avataras like Vyasa, Brahma and Siva, where the Lord gives them extraordinary powers, without entering in His own form.</p>
<li>So, how many types of Vibhava avataras are there?</li>
<p>To sum up, among the Vibhava avataras, there are two types.</p>
<p>1) The first set is called primary or important avataras.</p>
<p>2) The second set is called subsidiary or secondary avataras.</p>
<p>These secondary avataras are further subdivided into two kinds:-</p>
<p>1) Where the Lord enters into Jivatmas, in His own form. </p>
<p>2) Where the Lord does not enter Jivatmas, in His own form; but gives them extraordinary powers.</p>
<li>What is the fourth form of the Lord?</li>
<p>The fourth form of the Lord is called Antaryami. The Paramatma or the Lord lives within the heart of the chetana. The Lord takes the minute form and resides in the heart of the human being or animal, along with the Jivatma himself. So, this form of the Lord is called Antaryami or &#8220;One who controls from inside&#8221;.</p>
<li>What is the fifth form of the Lord?</li>
<p>The fifth form is called Archa avatara. That is, where the Lord is worshipped in Srirangam, Tirupati, Kanchipuram and other temples</p>
<li>What are the Divya Desas?</li>
<p>As explained earlier, we have ten Alwars, besides Andal and Madhurakavi. The verses they have sung in praise of the Lord, are called Divya Prabandha. Now, the places having temples, which have been sung by the Alwars, are called Divya	Desas.</p>
<li>How many Divya Desas are there?</li>
<p>We have 108 Divya Desas. Out of these, now we cannot worship in two places. These are Sri Vaikunta (Paramapada) and Milky Ocean.</p>
<li>Are there other temples, which are considered	equally holy and sacred?</li>
<p>Yes, we have 1) Tirunarayanapuram (Melkote) 2) Mannargudi 3) Sriperumpudur, and other places which are considered equally holy and sacred.</p>
<li>What about the temples in other places, villages	or towns, which have not been sung by Alwars?</li>
<p>There also, the Lord does exist and is of the same sanctity, divinity and importance. So far as the Lord&#8221;s presence is concerned, there is no difference absolutely, between any temples, whether they are Divya Desas or not. In any temple, in any village or town, where Lord Narayana is installed and worshipped, He is of the same form and He manifests Himself in full. So, this form of manifestation in temples is called archa avatara.</p>
<li>How many kinds of such temples are there?</li>
<p>There are four such kinds of temples.</p>
<li>What are these?</li>
<p>1) The first category consists of temples, where the Lord has manifested Himself of His own accord. This is called Svayam Vyakta Sthala.</p>
<p>2) The second category is of temples established  by devas.</p>
<p>3) The third category of temples are those installed by siddhas.</p>
<p>4) And the fourth category is the temples constructed and consecrated by human beings.</p>
<li>Is there any difference between these five forms of the Lord, which you have explained. (Para, Vyuha,etc.)?</li>
<p>There is absolutely no difference. The Lord is fully present in all these five forms; and everyone can worship the Lord, in whichever form he likes, and in whichever temple he likes.</p>
<li>Who is Niladevi?</li>
<p>Lord Narayana has three consorts. They are: Sri Devi or Mahalakshmi, Bhu Devi and Nila Devi.</p>
<li>Are they also mentioned in the Vedas?</li>
<p>Yes. We have separate suktas (hymns) for each one of them. The suktas are called Sri Sukta, Bhu Sukta and Nila Sukta, respectively. It is this Nila Devi, whom we have as Nappinnai in Krishna Avatara. It is to win the hand of Nappinnai, that Krishna fought and subdued the 7 bulls.</p>
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		<title>A Dialog on Hinduism &#8211; Matter and Creation &#8211; Chapter 5</title>
		<link>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-matter-and-creation/</link>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ramasamy Ramanuja Dasan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Dialog On Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[creation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jivatma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[paramatma]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://saranagathi.org/blogs/articles/?p=63</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan

What is the meaning of Achetana?
As mentioned earlier, we have three tattvas or reals. We will next take up Achetana and then finally Iswara. Achetana means non-sentient. It means that it	does not possess any knowledge. So, theAchetana is not capable of thinking, since it has no knowledge(pramana).
What are the categories under [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="author">By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan</div>
<ol class="faq">
<li>What is the meaning of Achetana?</li>
<p>As mentioned earlier, we have three tattvas or reals. We will next take up Achetana and then finally Iswara. Achetana means non-sentient. It means that it	does not possess any knowledge. So, theAchetana is not capable of thinking, since it has no knowledge(pramana).</p>
<li>What are the categories under this Achit or Achetana?</li>
<p>There are three categories, which are called: 1. Matter (prakriti) 2. Time(kala) 3. SuddhaSattva</p>
<li>Please explain each category.</li>
<p>Matter is the most fundamental element. It is called by different names like prakriti, mula prakriti, akshara, pradhana, avyakta, triguna and primordial matter.</p>
<li>How is it involved in the process of creation of the world?</li>
<p>At the time of pralaya, matter (prakriti) is in a subtle, undifferentiated state. It is then called Avibhakta. We plant a seed. In course of time, the seed grows, sprouts into a small plant and then into a big tree. Similarly, the undifferentiated Matter is like the seed. It slowly develops and in the next stage, it is called Vibhakta.</p>
<li>How do you describe this matter?</li>
<p>Matter is made up of three qualities or attributes (gunas). This matter is frequently undergoing changes or alterations.</p>
<li>What are the three qualities in matter?</li>
<p>The three qualities are: 1) Sattva 2) Rajas and 3) Tamas.</p>
<li>What is the meaning of these?</li>
<p>1) Sattva is the quality of matter that leads to harmony and happiness.</p>
<p>2) Rajas is the quality of matter that produces restless activity.</p>
<p>3) Tamas is the quality of matter that results in laziness and inertia.</p>
<li>Please explain what are the further transformations of matter</li>
<p>Initially matter is subtle in dormant state. It evolves into the next stage and the tattva called mahat comes out. From mahat we get the tattva ahankara. Both the mahat and ahankara are of three kinds.</p>
<li>What are the three kinds?</li>
<p>They are: sattvika, rajasa and tamasa, based on the qualities. Sattvika ahankara is called vaikarika; Rajasa ahankara is called taijasa; and Tamasa ahankara is called bhutadi.</p>
<li>How are the senses (indriyas) developed?</li>
<p>From the sattvika ahankara we get all the senses. These are five senses or indriyas of knowledge (jnana indriyas) and five senses of action or karma (karma indriyas) which were described earlier.</p>
<li>What is mind?</li>
<p>Mind is the inner sense organ. It is the seat of memory and knowledge. Mind functions in three ways, as 1) Ahankara 2) Chitta and 3) Buddhi.</p>
<p>1. Mind is called ahankara, when we falsely think that body and soul are the same.</p>
<p>2. Mind is called chitta, when we desire something. 3. It is called buddi, when it discriminates between good and bad, merit (punya) and sin (papa), true and false. Note: This ahankara is different from the ahankara which evolves out of mahat and which we have described earlier.</p>
<li>Explain briefly the process of creation?.</li>
<p>I had mentioned the three types of ahankara &#8211; viz., sattvika ahankara, rajasa ahankara and tamasa ahankara. Now, from the Tamasa Ahankara is bom the subtle element (tanmatra) of sound (sabda).</p>
<li>What do you mean by the subtle element?</li>
<p>The subtle element (tanmatra) is something in between two gross elements (bhuta). Supposing milk is being turned into curd, the intermediate stage of formation of curd, i.e., the stage between milk and curd is called the subtle stage. So from tamasa ahankara is created the subtle element of sound. (sabda)</p>
<li>What is produced from the subtle element of sound?</li>
<p>Ether (akasa) is produced from the subtle element of sound. Ether is called the gross element (bhuta). From ether is produced the subtle element of touch (sparsa). From the subtle element of touch is produced the gross element of air (vayu). From the gross element of air is produced the subtle element of sight (rupa). From the subtle element of sight is produced the gross element of light (tejas).</p>
<p>From the gross element of light is produced the subtle element of taste (rasa). From the subtle element of taste is produced the gross element of water.</p>
<p>From the gross element of water is produced the subtle element of smell (gandha). Finally from the subtle element of smell is produced the gross element of earth (prithivi).</p>
<p>Thus, each of the subtle elements (tanmatra) is an intermediate stage of creation, between two gross elements (bhuta).</p>
<p>The process of creation is, therefore, like this: prakriti or matter, mahat, ahankara, sound, ether, touch, air, sight, light, taste, water, smell, earth. Thus, in the process of creation, we have 24 items, i.e., starting from the empirical or fundamental matter, we have No. 2 mahat, No. 3 ahankara and No. 4 to 8 the 5 subtle elements mentioned above: and No. 9 to 13, the 5 gross elements (pancha bhutas) mentioned above; No. 14 is the mind (manas); No. 15 to 19 the 5 senses of knowledge; No. 20 to 24 are the 5 senses of action or karma. Thus we have a total of 24 elements.</p>
<li>What is the 25th item?</li>
<p>Having exhausted all the items of Prakriti as 24, as described above, we call the Jivatma the 25th item. All these 25 elements are also called as reals or tattvas. So, the Jivatma is the 25th tattva.</p>
<li>what about ether? Is it also eternal, permanent, like the soul, or is ether produced?</li>
<p>Yes, ether is created by Brahman. It is not eternal.</p>
<li>What about the other four elements, air, fire, water and earth?</li>
<p>These elements are also created by Brahman. They are not eternal.</p>
<li>Is air created by ether; is fire created by air and so on; each by the preceding element? Or are all these five elements directly created by Brahman?</li>
<p>Each is created by Brahman from the preceding element, which is His body. So, air is not created by ether, but air is created by Brahman, whose body is ether; and so on.</p>
<li>Are the five senses of knowledge and five senses of action, eternal or are these created ones?.</li>
<p>The five senses of knowledge and the five senses of action are all created by Brahman, just like the five elements of ether, air, and so on. The 11th sense, i.e., the mind or manas is also created.</p>
<li>What is the size of these 11 senses (indriyas)?</li>
<p>These 11 senses are also atomic in size. These senses also depart from the body, when a person dies. Hence they have to be necessarily atomic; since we cannot see these 11 senses, leaving the body, at the time of death.</p>
<li>What about the principal vital air (prana)? Is this also created or eternal?</li>
<p>The principal vital air is also created like the senses.</p>
<li>You mentioned about the principal vital air. Is it the same as ordinary air or is it different?</li>
<p>It is different from the ordinary air. It has five functions. We give them five different names, depending upon their functions.</p>
<li>What are these names?</li>
<p>1) Prana 2) Vyana 3) Apana 4) Samana and 5) Udana.</p>
<li>What is the function of each of these types of air?</li>
<p>1) Prana is the most important. It has the principal vital activity, so long as the person lives.</p>
<p>2) Vyana helps in the circulation of air in the body. It has the circulatory activity.</p>
<p>3) Apana helps in excretion of unwanted air from the body.</p>
<p>4) Samana helps in digesting things, eaten by the person. 5) Udana helps in respiration, in the breathing activity of the person.</p>
<li>Is the principal vital air also atomic in size?</li>
<p>Yes.</p>
<li>Please explain further, the process of creation.</li>
<p>What is called quintuplication of five-fold division takes place in the process of creation. I have to talk a bit of mathematics. We saw that there are five gross elements that are ether, air, light, water and earth. Now, the process of creation is like this. Each gross element is taken and divided into two halves. One half of this element is again split up into four equal parts and added to the remaining four gross elements. For example, let us take the gross element of ether. This is divided into two halves. One half of it is further divided into four equal portions, namely, 1/8th each and so 1/8th ether is added toeach of the remaining four elements, namely, air, light, water and earth. In the same way, the remaining four gross elements are also divided into halves and each half is again divided into four portions and added to the other gross elements.</p>
<li>What is the net result?</li>
<p>Let us take the gross element of ether. After all these transformations or quintuplication, the ele-ment ether will actually consist of the following: Half of ether, l/8th portion of air, l/8th portion of light, l/8th portion of water and l/8th portion of earth. So half plus 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8, will add to one. So after this mixing up, finally we shall have ether consisting of half of ether and l/8th of the remaining four gross elements. So, this method of mixture is called quin-tuplication or five-fold division (panchikarana).</p>
<li>Then how are we justified in calling them by their names as ether etc., when each of these is indivi-dually composed of all the five gross elements? -</li>
<p>From the mathematics explained above you will observe that in the composition of each element, the dominant element is 50%. The other elements are only l/8th each making up the other half. Since one element is predominant, the element is named after it.</p>
<li>We have heard of trifold division or tripartition (trivrit karana). What is it? How is it different from quintuplication?</li>
<p>The same process which has been explained above is talked of in regard to three gross elements, namely, light, water and earth, instead of all the five gross elements. The principle of mixing up of these three elements is also the same as I have explained earlier in regard to all the five elements. When only three elements as above are involved it is called tripartition. The principle in both the cases is the same. Actually, quintuplication is only an extension of the principle of tripartition.</p>
<li>Is there any further extension ot this principle?</li>
<p>Yes. In fact, in Vishnupurana, along with the 5 gross elements as above, the two earlier tattvas of mahat and ahankara are also added. These make up a total of seven. Then the Vishnupurana describes the principle of seven-fold division (saptikarana). So, it is only a further extension of the principle of mixing up of the elements.</p>
<li>Then how is the world created?</li>
<p>I have explained to you the quintuplication of the five gross elements. After the five-fold division, as above, of the gross elements, they join up and then the world is created.</p>
<li>How many types of creation are there?</li>
<p>There are two types of creation: aggregate creation (samashti srishti) and individual creation (vyashti srishti).</p>
<li>What is aggregate creation?</li>
<p>The creation of mahat out of the elementary or fundamental matter; the creation of ahankara and the ten indriyas of knowledge and karma; the creation of the. gross elements and the five subtle elements &#8211; all these are called aggregate creation. .</p>
<li>What is individual creation?</li>
<p>Out of the above process or after the above process, the world is created. The further creation of human beings, devas, animals, trees and plants is called individual creation. I think this much of understanding about matter (prakriti) is enough for the present. .</p>
<li>How is time sub-divided?</li>
<p>As is common knowledge, time is divided into three portions. These are: 1) past, 2) present 3) future.</p>
<li>What are the further sub-divisions?</li>
<p>The further sub-divisions are again as is commonly known, day, month, year, hours, minutes and seconds. This much is enough for the principle of time.</p>
<li>What is suddha sattva?</li>
<p>Suddha sattva, as the name indicates, is pure sattva, without any mixture or trace of the other two qualities, namely, rajas and tamas.</p>
<li>Where is Suddha Sattva?</li>
<p>Sri Vaikunta or Paramapada is fully suddha, sattva. In this world also, the archa forms of Sriman Narayana and Lakshmi in the temples are suddha sattva.</ol>
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		<title>A Dialog on Hinduism &#8211; The Eternal Jivatma &#8211; Chapter 4</title>
		<link>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-the-eternal-jivatma/</link>
		<comments>http://saranagathi.org/blogs/gopala-desikan/a-dialog-on-hinduism-the-eternal-jivatma/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ramasamy Ramanuja Dasan</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Dialog On Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hinduism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jivatma]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sastras]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Srivaishnavam]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vedas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[visishtadvaitham]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.saranagathi.org/blog/?p=94</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan 

Please explain how you say that the soul is different from the body?
When I say &#8220;this is my book&#8221;, I mean the book belongs to me. The book is obviously something different from myself.
Similarly, I say &#8220;this is my body&#8221;. So, the body is different from myself. Here, the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="author"> By Sri V.N. Gopala Desikan </div>
<ol class="faq">
<li>Please explain how you say that the soul is different from the body?</li>
<p>When I say &#8220;this is my book&#8221;, I mean the book belongs to me. The book is obviously something different from myself.</p>
<p>Similarly, I say &#8220;this is my body&#8221;. So, the body is different from myself. Here, the word &#8220;myself refers to the soul. Thus, we can see that the body is different from the soul. Otherwise, we will not say that &#8220;this is my body.&#8221;</p>
<li>What is the relationship between the soul and senses, mind, knowledge?</li>
<p>Here again, the soul is different from all these. We say &#8220;I see through my eyes&#8221;. Hence I or the soul is different from the eyes. We say &#8220;I hear through my ears.&#8221; So I or soul is different from the ears. We say that &#8220;my leg is paining or my hand is paining.&#8221; So, it is clear that the leg is different from the &#8216;I&#8217; or soul. Thus, the five senses of action or karma (Karma Indriyas) and the five senses of knowledge (Jnana Indriyas) are all different from the soul. Similarly, we say that &#8220;my mind is clear.&#8221; From this also, it can be seen that T or the soul is different from the mind.</p>
<li>Please explain this with an analogy? .</li>
<p>The child which comes out of the mother&#8217;s womb is very small in size. Then it becomes a boy or a girl and then a young man or woman and then finally he or she becomes old and then passes away.Thus, the body varies in size. It starts at the time of birth as a very small baby and then grows up. The body becomes ill, the body becomes well and is thus subject to so many changes, whereas the soul is not affected. Thus the body changes in size. The body becomes old, weak. The body shrinks in old age.The body is that of a male or female or animal. Thus the bodies are different for different persons. But the souls are all similar and are not subject to any change.</p>
<li>Does the soul also come to live along with the body and die along with the body?</li>
<p>No. The soul or Jivatma is eternal and Permanent. The soul has no beginning or end. or when the body dies, the soul does not die</p>
<li>How many souls are there?</li>
<p>The souls are infinite in number. I will give you a very simple example. We stay in one house for some time. After some time we shift to another house. Again, we go to another town or place and shift to another house.Thus, we are going from one house to another or from one place to another. Just like this, the soul also stays in one body for some time. At the death of the person, the soul leaves the body; then it either attains salvation and reaches Paramapada; or, it goes to Svarga -(heaven); or directly takes on a new body. Where the soul goes to Svarga, after experiencing pleasures the soul returns to earth and takes on another body, as a man, or an animal, or a bird or anything. Thus, the soul also goes from one body to another, just as we shift from one house to another.</p>
<li>Can you give me a further example?</li>
<p>For the same person, in the body, first there is childhood; from childhood, youth comes over and then old age comes over. Similarly, for the soul also, from one body it changes over to another body. We do not feel sorry when a child becomes a young man or when a young man becomes old,because the body remains the same. But when the soul goes from one body to another, we call it death and grieve for the dead person.</p>
<li>What is the size of the soul?</li>
<p>The soul is atomic in size.</p>
<li>How do you explain this?</li>
<p>The soul enters a new body, based on the previous karma. Thus, the soul can take on thebody of an ant or it can take on the body of an elephant or a man. So the soul has to be smaller than the ant for it to enter the body of the ant.Thus by logic,the soul has to be smaller than the smallest of the bodies like ant or mosquito. Thus, the soul is atomic in size.</p>
<li>Why not say that the soul also changes in size, like the body? For example, the body of an elephant is much bigger than the body of an ant. Can the soul of an elephant be much bigger than the soul of an ant?</li>
<p>This is actually the philosophy of Jainism that the soul is as big or as small as the body of the person. However, we do not accept this theory and we have the proof of the Vedas. In several places, the Vedas declare that the soul is atomic in size. In fact, the Vedas say that the soul is of the size of 1/100th of 1/100th of the tip of a grain. This is only to explain that the soul is atomic in size. Further, I can give one more reason why the soul is atomic. At the death of a person, the soul leaves the body and goes out, according to sastras. We accept the authority of the sastras. We are not able to see the soul actually leaving the body. Thus, the soul is smaller than the smallest object that our eyes can see, and is atomic.</p>
<li>Can the soul be destroyed?</li>
<p>The soul is eternal and permanent, i.e., always existing. Since it is atomic in size, it cannot be cut by a sword, it cannot be burnt by fire, and it cannot be thrown about by air. It is so minutely small</p>
<li>What is the meaning of saying that a person is born or a person is dead?</li>
<p>When the soul has taken on a new body, we say the child is born. Similarly, when the soul leaves the body, we say the person is dead.</p>
<li>Why do people grieve when a person dies?</li>
<p>A really intelligent man, who knows philosophy, does not grieve. However, it is because of his attachment that a person really feels for his near and dear ones when they die.Let me give you another example. When the clothes we are wearing are torn, we naturally throw them away and we put on new clothes. Similarly, the soul also throws off the old body and takes on a new one, just as we take on new clothes.</p>
<li>You said the souls are infinite in number. Is there any variation between these different souls?</li>
<p>There is no variation. They are all atomic in size. However, the souls are divided into three categories.</p>
<li>What are the three categories?</li>
<p>1. The souls or Jivatmas, which are still bound by samsara-pass through the cycle of births and deaths. They leave one body after death, but are again bom in this world in some other body and go on rotating in the cycle of samsara. Thus, these souls are called Baddha, i.e., Bound (by samsara).</p>
<li>Who are these Baddhas?</li>
<p>They start right from the four-faced Brahma and include the various devas, gandharvas and so on, viz. people in the other worlds. They include human beings, animals, trees, insects, birds and those in water like fish, ants and everything.</p>
<li>Do you mean to say that trees also have souls?</li>
<p>Yes. The trees also have souls. It has been proved by modern biologists that the trees and plants have life in them.</p>
<li>How many sub-divisions are there in the first category of Baddhas?</li>
<p>We can broadly say that there are four subdivisions. </p>
<p>These are: </p>
<p>1. The Devas. Under this group we include the pitrus, siddhas, gandharvas, kinnaras, vasus and yakshas.</p>
<p>2. Human beings.</p>
<p>3. The animal category. Under this are included all animals, birds, those which crawl like serpents and worms.</p>
<p>4. Trees and plants, whose knowledge is much less.</p>
<li>What is the second category of soul?</li>
<p>The second category is Mukta. That is, the souls or Jivatmas, which have been released from the samsara, from the cycle of births and deaths. The jivatma, after adopting the means prescribed in the sastras for attaining salvation, thus attains salvation or moksha and then becomes mukta or liberated. He is in Paramapada, permanently enjoying and serving the Lord Narayana and His Consort Lakshmi</p>
<li>Who are the third category?</li>
<p>The third category consists of Nityas, namely, those souls who are eternally free, who are never born in this world. We also call them as Nitya Suris. These are Adisesha, Garuda, Vishvaksena and such others.</p>
<li>Are souls of these categories also atomic in size?</li>
<p>Yes, the souls of all these categories are also atomic in size.</p>
<li>Whose souls are infinite?</li>
<p>Only those of Narayana and Lakshmi are infinite (vibhu).</p>
<li>What are the other qualities of the souls?</li>
<p>The souls are of the nature of knowledge, happiness and purity and the like. Their knowledge is infinite, i.e., they can perceive and understand everything.</p>
<li>But, this is not the case with human beings. Our knowledge is certainly not infinite.</li>
<p>The essential nature of the knowledge of the soul is infinite. But, having come into the world, the knowledge is temporarily contracted or becomes restricted. On release from samsara, the knowledge is restored to infiniteness.</p>
<li>Why is the knowledge contracted or reduced, when the Jivatma comes into this world?</li>
<p>This is because of the past karma of the Jivatma and his association with the material world around. The knowledge of one is much different from the knowledge of another. The knowledge of a tree or animal is much lower and that of man is much higher. Again, among different men and women, the knowledge of one is much higher or lower than that of another. All these variations are due to the differences in the past karma of the individuals.</p>
<li>How do you classify the normal activities of the Jivatma?</li>
<p>The activities can be classified into three kinds.</p>
<p>1) Those activities which bring punya to the soul, like going to the temple, worshipping the Lord and doing service to the Lord. </p>
<p>2) Those activities which bring papa or sin to the Jivatma like uttering lies, committing murder and drinking liquor. </p>
<p>3) The third kind of activities are those which are neutral in character. That is, which brings neither punya nor papa to the soul,like remaining quiet or lying in deep sleep.</p>
<li>Sometimes, I read the words &#8220;attributive knowledge&#8221; (Dharmabhuta Jnana). What is this?</li>
<p>As I explained earlier, the soul itself is of the nature of knowledge, but it has also knowledge as an attribute or quality</p>
<li>It is difficult for me to understand</li>
<p>Let me explain by a simple example. We have a lamp. When the lamp is lighted, the lamp lights up the surrounding areas. At the same time, the lamp itself glows with light. In other words, by the lighting of a lamp, the surrounding areas are seen by us and the lamp itself is also seen by us.Somewhat similarly, by the attributive knowledge of the soul, we are able to understand the surrounding things. It is this attributive knowledge, which is contracted or restricted, when the Jivatma is in samsara.</p>
<li>You were saying that the soul is atomic in size.How is it then we are able to see the various places, the various things, which are quite far off?</li>
<p>Again, the example of the light that I gave you will apply. You keep the lamp at one place but you are able to see things which are quite far off by the light of the lamp. Similarly, by the attributive knowledge of the soul, you are able to see things which are far off.</p>
<li>I do not understand your saying that the essential nature of the soul or Jivatma is happiness; In this world, we face so many sorrows and difficulties. It is rarely that we are happy. How do you say that the Jivatma is essentially happy?</li>
<p>The essential nature of the soul is indeed happiness. But because of his contact with the body and as a result of his previous karma (papa or sin), the degree of happiness is reduced. Once he attains moksha, the permanent happiness is fully restored.</p>
</ol>
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